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Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]

lofgren.house.gov

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Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]

#21

Post by rayiner »

tptacek wrote: post #14
rayiner wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The depressing lulziness if a sentence that scales with the number of documents downloaded is matched only by that of sentences that scale with the weight of the drugs carried.

Seriously, how does that even make sense? The idea of a sentence that is accelerated if it's your Nth offense makes sense. A sentence accelerated by malicious destruction (of any sort) makes sense. Accelerate if done for commercial gain. Accelerate for deliberately obstructing investigations. Accelerate for being the ringleader of a conspiracy. But a sentencing structure that says "fuck it, all we have to go on is da…

It's a hack to make it easier to put major drug distributors, commercial piracy operations, etc, away for longer sentences on the assumption that if you're downloading a million documents, you must be engaged in some large criminal enterprise.

Really, no crime needs more than a few degrees (it's good enough for murder, after all). Even things like aggravating factors can be used pretty unfairly.

Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]

#22

Post by politician »

tptacek wrote: post #14
rayiner wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The depressing lulziness if a sentence that scales with the number of documents downloaded is matched only by that of sentences that scale with the weight of the drugs carried.

Seriously, how does that even make sense? The idea of a sentence that is accelerated if it's your Nth offense makes sense. A sentence accelerated by malicious destruction (of any sort) makes sense. Accelerate if done for commercial gain. Accelerate for deliberately obstructing investigations. Accelerate for being the ringleader of a conspiracy. But a sentencing structure that says "fuck it, all we have to go on is da…

Worse, according to Granick, this made-up number is laundered into a finding of fact that is given deference at appeal.

Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]

#23

Post by spinlocked »

tptacek wrote: post #7

Would Aaron's Law have helped Aaron? Both Orin Kerr and Jennifer Granick have said that his actions in evading filtering and shutoffs on MIT's networks would have created a plausible argument for the prosecution that he had been evading specific code-based authorization mechanisms and would have known his access was unauthorized. If you read Reason, you're immediately suspicious of laws with people's names on them; t…

Lofgren's proposal appears to address the EFFs main concerns:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/01/aaron-swartz-fix-draco...

Legislating against what you term "prosecutorial misconduct" is far fetched. Can you imagine how you would word that legislation without hampering law enforcement efforts against the real bad guys? Do you really want that?

Having the law named after Aaron would be more than symbolic, it would be a perpetual reminder that overreach against programmers who in general want to make the world a better place can result in massive civil outcry, and to a large extent address your concerns too.

Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]

#24

Post by michaelfeathers »

nonamegiven wrote: post #17
michaelfeathers wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His price for not admitting felony guilt was to face 13 felony counts and a potential of 35+ years in jail at trial. That's unconscionable.

That's extortion.

I think they call it 'plea bargaining' now for some reason.

Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]

#25

Post by [deleted] »

michaelfeathers wrote: post #15
aggronn wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? He could have sidestepped any plea bargaining if he wished. I'm not sure what you're suggesting they do.

His price for not admitting felony guilt was to face 13 felony counts and a potential of 35+ years in jail at trial. That's unconscionable.

[deleted]

Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]

#26

Post by slapshot »

michaelfeathers wrote: post #6

It's a nice narrow fix and I hope it passes, but the real elephant in the room is 'plea bargaining.' That needs reform at the federal level.

That sounds like a problem with the sentences and not with the plea.

--> Current world: Defendants have a choice between accepting a certain jail term of Y or risking trial where they'll get in a range from 0-X (where X >> Y).

--> Your world: Defendants must risk trial where they'll get in a range from 0-X.

How is the second one better? If you want to reduce X, then just reduce X. The same argument goes if you say that Y must be some fraction of X --- if I were a defendant, I'd want at least an option of a very small Y (and if X is too high, just reduce X).

In addition to all the efficiency arguments (jurors, court costs, etc), guilty pleas save victims and witnesses from having to show up in court, be aggressively cross-examined by defense counsel, and suffer again. Why is it beneficial for somebody who knows he's guilty and knows he'll be convicted to have to inflict pain on his victims again?

[Edit: replied to wrong post]

Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]

#28

Post by dyno12345 »

michaelfeathers wrote: post #15
aggronn wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? He could have sidestepped any plea bargaining if he wished. I'm not sure what you're suggesting they do.

His price for not admitting felony guilt was to face 13 felony counts and a potential of 35+ years in jail at trial. That's unconscionable.

To be fair it's doubtful that most of that would have actually held up in court. That woman who bullied that 13-year-old to committing suicide a couple of years ago was similarly charged under a very broad interpretation of wire fraud and was only ultimately convicted of a misdemeanor.

Though he gets bankrupted from legal costs either way for sure

Re: Rep. Zoe Lofgren Introduces Aaron's Law [pdf]

#29

Post by [deleted] »

michaelfeathers wrote: post #15
aggronn wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? He could have sidestepped any plea bargaining if he wished. I'm not sure what you're suggesting they do.

His price for not admitting felony guilt was to face 13 felony counts and a potential of 35+ years in jail at trial. That's unconscionable.

[deleted]
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