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Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

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Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#111

Post by BrokenPipe »

gee_totes wrote: post #64
BrokenPipe wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but Aaron's activism resulted in him being bullied until he took his own life. It's a difficult topic. If you assume that ddos from a collective is similar to blocking a road by a collective during a strike or manifestation then I must say that some people won't be able to get to work that day and in general nobody would get hurt. This sort of pacific interruption raises awareness, which by itself is very import…

But why protest student blogs and class websites? Why not target the prosecutor's office? Blockading a key port that is shipping war supplies or preforming a DDOS attack against government websites can be legitimate form of protest, but those actions are very hard to plan and pull off. This attack (if it is an attack) just seems like someone is going after the low-hanging fruit of MIT's network.

Perhaps easier targets. Perhaps because the people behind the ddos want actual students and teachers of the MIT to revolt against those that decided to continue the case against Aaron. Who said nobody is attacking the persecutor's office and why is it either and not both ?

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#112

Post by aaron695 »

This cause is trying to change the access across the world for scientific articles and you're complaining for a short period

"A few class websites are inaccessible, a few friends' blogs are down, and web development is a bit annoying"

That's the most selfish thing I've seen today.

No argument why this form of protest won't work just it interrupts your current lifestyle.

And IMO it will help, it keep momentum and adds publicity to the other means also going on.

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#113

Post by subsystem »

FireBeyond wrote: post #106
[deleted] wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

You must not have read the part about Aaron not actually being an MIT student at all - hence the trespass charges.

The trespassing charges were dropped. He was indicted for wire fraud, computer fraud, unlawfully obtaining information from a protected computer and recklessly damaging a protected computer.

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#114

Post by BrokenPipe »

vor_ wrote: post #101
analog wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common argument against activism and it's a classic logical fallacy. You're doing X, but Y would be more effective, therefore X is pointless. In reality what happens is that someone does X and someone else does Y, and it's not uncommon for the same group to do both. Fwiw, I don't have any view on whether this attack (if it is one) is justified. I haven't read enough on what MIT have/haven't done so I can't…

The post you're replying to doesn't say anything about being pointless, but besides that, surely it's not a logical fallacy to point out that one action is more effective than another.

meh, he didn't say pointless but seems like he meant it by saying " low hanging fruit"

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#115

Post by pvg »

wavesounds wrote: post #55

To me this feels a bit like a lunch counter cook complaining all these black people showing up in his restaurant are causing him extra work. The whole point of a protest is to put pressure on the system your trying to change. Start a walkout/go on strike if you dont want to deal with the problems the organization you're working for caused. The school only gets power from its students. Without the students there is no…

You might be well in the running for stupidest thing ever said on HN.

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#116

Post by btilly »

FireBeyond wrote: post #100
btilly wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if it turns out, after all, that MIT was in some way responsible -- that's still very unclear In the Boston Globe, Aaron's lawyer says that a suggested plea deal with probation and no actual jail sentence was rejected by MIT, and that played a part in the prosecutor pushing for harsher judgement. If there is any truth in that, then there is evidence that MIT did indeed play enough of a role to have some of the respon…

So MIT should have had reasonable cause to believe that there was a risk of suicide should they decide to prosecute a case? And that makes them responsible? Is that a road we want to go down?

You seem to be reading something into what I said that I did not say.

It is my belief that MIT as an institution should have a policy on the appropriate severity of response to actions such as Aaron's. They need to for the simple reason that they have made a conscious decision to choose to make themselves a natural lightning rod for this type of incident. Therefore they help set the bar for what an appropriate reaction should be.

My further belief is that if this policy is set in accord with the bulk of opinion of MIT students and alums, then we'd have had a different result in this case.

This does not mean that they should be held to be at legal fault for the suicide. However if you have even a passing familiarity with root cause analysis you'll know the value of habitually fixing systemic issues you identify which are several layers removed from the ultimate failure.

I am cautiously optimistic that Abelson's report will address this issue.

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#117

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #107
gojomo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the effect of a 'protest' is to prevent people from accessing online information that they'd like to access, it goes against Aaron's anti-censorship views. Every bully wants to 'discomfort' their opponents into changing. Those who use DDoS are more like the federal prosecutors -- making 'destructive' threats, expecting change through punishment -- than Aaron.

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#118

Post by BrokenPipe »

FireBeyond wrote: post #100
btilly wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if it turns out, after all, that MIT was in some way responsible -- that's still very unclear In the Boston Globe, Aaron's lawyer says that a suggested plea deal with probation and no actual jail sentence was rejected by MIT, and that played a part in the prosecutor pushing for harsher judgement. If there is any truth in that, then there is evidence that MIT did indeed play enough of a role to have some of the respon…

So MIT should have had reasonable cause to believe that there was a risk of suicide should they decide to prosecute a case? And that makes them responsible? Is that a road we want to go down?

No the issue is that they decided to prosecute the case.

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#120

Post by BrokenPipe »

pvg wrote: post #115
wavesounds wrote: post #55

To me this feels a bit like a lunch counter cook complaining all these black people showing up in his restaurant are causing him extra work. The whole point of a protest is to put pressure on the system your trying to change. Start a walkout/go on strike if you dont want to deal with the problems the organization you're working for caused. The school only gets power from its students. Without the students there is no…

You might be well in the running for stupidest thing ever said on HN.

Why? This is far from stupid.
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