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Aaron Swartz was 'killed by the government,' father tells mourners

latimes.com

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Re: Aaron Swartz was 'killed by the government,' father tells mourners

#11

Post by clarky07 »

I really feel for his family, but I just can't blame his death on the Government. Did they handle this poorly and overreach greatly? Yes. Did they kill him? No. He was offered a plea deal for 6 months in prison. Nobody in their right mind kills themselves over 6 months in jail or the prospect of being a felon.

Obviously being labeled a felon and 6 months in jail sucks, but it's not like he couldn't get a job because of it. Based on the front page of HN for the last several days it's clear he was a well respected and loved individual in our community. He would have been just fine.

Re: Aaron Swartz was 'killed by the government,' father tells mourners

#12

Post by tcuk »

clarky07 wrote: post #11

I really feel for his family, but I just can't blame his death on the Government. Did they handle this poorly and overreach greatly? Yes. Did they kill him? No. He was offered a plea deal for 6 months in prison. Nobody in their right mind kills themselves over 6 months in jail or the prospect of being a felon. Obviously being labeled a felon and 6 months in jail sucks, but it's not like he couldn't get a job because…

Agreed 100%, your reasoning is sound. I think this is a fair assessment of the situation, and that if more people could hold this opinion, more reform against the laws that so many disagree with would actually happen.

Re: Aaron Swartz was 'killed by the government,' father tells mourners

#13

Post by waterlesscloud »

suprgeek wrote: post #7

His father is justifiably enraged at the US Govt. Ms Ortiz and Steve Heymann are certainly the primary culprits here - However MIT is equally if not more responsible for this mess that ended in a horrible and needless tragedy. MIT has a higher duty than the Govt. It is in their charter to foster open access - and not only did they NOT stand up for Aaron, they actually made the prosecution malicious by refusing to ask…

MIT didn't kill Aaron. But their decision to be the roadblock to a plea deal because it didn't include time in prison is shameful, and there is definitely some heavy responsibility on the heads of those at MIT who rejected that deal.

Re: Aaron Swartz was 'killed by the government,' father tells mourners

#14

Post by politician »

tcuk wrote: post #12
clarky07 wrote: post #11

I really feel for his family, but I just can't blame his death on the Government. Did they handle this poorly and overreach greatly? Yes. Did they kill him? No. He was offered a plea deal for 6 months in prison. Nobody in their right mind kills themselves over 6 months in jail or the prospect of being a felon. Obviously being labeled a felon and 6 months in jail sucks, but it's not like he couldn't get a job because…

Agreed 100%, your reasoning is sound. I think this is a fair assessment of the situation, and that if more people could hold this opinion, more reform against the laws that so many disagree with would actually happen.

Should you always plead guilty to crimes the Government accuses you of?

Re: Aaron Swartz was 'killed by the government,' father tells mourners

#15

Post by tcuk »

politician wrote: post #14
tcuk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed 100%, your reasoning is sound. I think this is a fair assessment of the situation, and that if more people could hold this opinion, more reform against the laws that so many disagree with would actually happen.

Should you always plead guilty to crimes the Government accuses you of?

I think the answer is obviously 'no'.

But I also believe that your question is exactly what is bad about the situation. It is a total red herring to the issue at hand. Let me expand:

He should have pleaded guilty to the crimes, because it is in my opinion, that he did infact break current laws, and that 6 months + felony, is not life ending sentence, far from it.

Consider this:

I also believe the laws in which he broke shouldn't exist in the capacity as they do.

You can hold both the above beliefs, and when you do, it gives you power to make reform in an appropriate capacity.

Re: Aaron Swartz was 'killed by the government,' father tells mourners

#16

Post by mscarborough »

clarky07 wrote: post #11

I really feel for his family, but I just can't blame his death on the Government. Did they handle this poorly and overreach greatly? Yes. Did they kill him? No. He was offered a plea deal for 6 months in prison. Nobody in their right mind kills themselves over 6 months in jail or the prospect of being a felon. Obviously being labeled a felon and 6 months in jail sucks, but it's not like he couldn't get a job because…

I can't either, and that was before I had read anything about a six month plea deal, but searched for it thanks to your comment.

According to Aaron's own lead defense attorney, they both wanted to reject it so that they could fight the charges in court [1].

This article reads weirdly though, in one quote the attorney says they 'both' rejected the plea deal, and in the next, he says he "didn't want to expose Aaron to the risk" of a jury trial.

[1] http://boston.com/metrodesk/2013/01/14/mit-hacking-case-lawy...

Re: Aaron Swartz was 'killed by the government,' father tells mourners

#17

Post by politician »

sethist wrote: post #9
staunch wrote: post #3

Going from being rich to poor (due to legal costs), facing years in prison, and becoming a convicted felon for life? For running what amounted to "wget -r http://jstor.mit.edu/ " to download publicly funded academic papers? I think even someone who had never suffered from depression might contemplate suicide. His father's words may be a little too strong, but they're not entirely off-base either.

His father's words may be a little too strong, but they're not entirely off-base either. Yes, they are off base. He deserves leeway due to the untold grief he is enduring, but a statement like that is ridiculous. Thousands of people a day go to jail a day, many of them for breaking unjust laws, and very few of them kill themselves. He was killed by depression/mental illness not by the government. The charges likely e…

a: In a drive-by shooting, the driver is often charged along with the shooter; even when the driver insists that he didn't know what was going to happen.

b: The defense attorney claimed that he made Stephen Heymann aware of the suicide risk early in the case.

If Heymann was aware of the risk and pushed ahead anyway, is he a contributor in the same sense that the driver of the car is a contributor? Why or why not?

Re: Aaron Swartz was 'killed by the government,' father tells mourners

#18

Post by oinksoft »

politician wrote: post #14
tcuk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed 100%, your reasoning is sound. I think this is a fair assessment of the situation, and that if more people could hold this opinion, more reform against the laws that so many disagree with would actually happen.

Should you always plead guilty to crimes the Government accuses you of?

No, but suicide is not the only alternative (you could try to flee the country or otherwise go into hiding). It is just horrible that somebody already battling with depression for so long got caught up in the twisted game that is the prosecution of federal crimes.

Good read, related to the cat-and-mouse game: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/14/jailhou...

Re: Aaron Swartz was 'killed by the government,' father tells mourners

#19

Post by suprgeek »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #13
suprgeek wrote: post #7

His father is justifiably enraged at the US Govt. Ms Ortiz and Steve Heymann are certainly the primary culprits here - However MIT is equally if not more responsible for this mess that ended in a horrible and needless tragedy. MIT has a higher duty than the Govt. It is in their charter to foster open access - and not only did they NOT stand up for Aaron, they actually made the prosecution malicious by refusing to ask…

MIT didn't kill Aaron. But their decision to be the roadblock to a plea deal because it didn't include time in prison is shameful, and there is definitely some heavy responsibility on the heads of those at MIT who rejected that deal.

Everyone involved in the case had been made aware of Aaron's depression http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/he_ll_be_safe_in_jail_fed...

They knew that this (suicide) was a risk if they kept hounding the guy - yet the Prosecutors and MIT both kept going at it - for the sake of political gain (prosecutors).

Re: Aaron Swartz was 'killed by the government,' father tells mourners

#20

Post by awj »

suprgeek wrote: post #19
waterlesscloud wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MIT didn't kill Aaron. But their decision to be the roadblock to a plea deal because it didn't include time in prison is shameful, and there is definitely some heavy responsibility on the heads of those at MIT who rejected that deal.

Everyone involved in the case had been made aware of Aaron's depression http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/he_ll_be_safe_in_jail_fed... They knew that this (suicide) was a risk if they kept hounding the guy - yet the Prosecutors and MIT both kept going at it - for the sake of political gain (prosecutors).

> yet the Prosecutors and MIT both kept going at it - for the sake of political gain (prosecutors).

Do you have proof of this, or is it just what you believe of the situation?

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