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Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

blog.achernya.com

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Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#81

Post by geofft »

wavesounds wrote: post #73
gojomo wrote: post #45

As I'd mentioned on an earlier submission about W3C's site being inaccessible: A cool thing about Aaron's activism was that it involved building things, circumventing censorship, and spreading information, rather than sabotage and denial-of-service.

Its not black and white. Sure Aaron built things but he also threatened to destroy JSTOR's business model. Likewise a DDoS may seem destructive but if it causes MIT to have better Ethics and Leadership as a result then its well worth the discomfort. If theres a bug in your system you sometimes have to replace some lines of code to make it better, this isn't destruction its just change.

But it won't. I certainly hope MIT makes serious changes in its leadership and ethics (if it turns out, after all, that MIT was in some way responsible -- that's still very unclear), but that's not because anyone's DDoSing MIT, it's because I can see the story.

If there's a bug in your system, fix the bug. Don't delete a file in another directory and call it change.

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#82

Post by droithomme »

Permit wrote: post #75
armored_mammal wrote: post #38

If the students have failed to vehemently distance themselves and protest to the administration, or even quit MIT for somewhere else, then they are just as guilty. Their attendance abets the status quo. Especially since it's a private university. Quit whining.

>Quit whining. What an excellent way to win the hearts and minds of the MIT student body. Congratulations you've managed to belittle and alienate the same people you'd want on your side!

Why would anyone want to have on their side people who choose to give money to support a murderous anti-freedom organization like MIT?

You know what it represents now. You choose to continue to be associated with them. That is not an innocent decision.

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#83

Post by aeonsky »

wonnage wrote: post #74
Permit wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it perfectly acceptable to inconvenience people from their studies? Man, this kind of attitude makes me want to encourage harsher penalties on people who pull this bullshit. You do your movement no favours when you inconvenience the same people you want on your side.

You must not live in the US, as we have freedom of assembly here

You can't assemble if it infringes on any one elses right to get to a public destination.

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#84

Post by gojomo »

wavesounds wrote: post #73
gojomo wrote: post #45

As I'd mentioned on an earlier submission about W3C's site being inaccessible: A cool thing about Aaron's activism was that it involved building things, circumventing censorship, and spreading information, rather than sabotage and denial-of-service.

Its not black and white. Sure Aaron built things but he also threatened to destroy JSTOR's business model. Likewise a DDoS may seem destructive but if it causes MIT to have better Ethics and Leadership as a result then its well worth the discomfort. If theres a bug in your system you sometimes have to replace some lines of code to make it better, this isn't destruction its just change.

If the effect of a 'protest' is to prevent people from accessing online information that they'd like to access, it goes against Aaron's anti-censorship views.

Every bully wants to 'discomfort' their opponents into changing. Those who use DDoS are more like the federal prosecutors -- making 'destructive' threats, expecting change through punishment -- than Aaron.

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#85

Post by wavesounds »

Permit wrote: post #62
wavesounds wrote: post #55

To me this feels a bit like a lunch counter cook complaining all these black people showing up in his restaurant are causing him extra work. The whole point of a protest is to put pressure on the system your trying to change. Start a walkout/go on strike if you dont want to deal with the problems the organization you're working for caused. The school only gets power from its students. Without the students there is no…

>To me this feels a bit like a lunch counter cook complaining all these black people showing up in his restaurant are causing him extra work. Are black people notorious for eating or something? That kind of came out of left field, there.

Yeah I was comparing a DDoS to lunch counter Sit-ins of the 60s. During the civil rights movement blacks and other protestors would overwhelm a restaurant taking up all the space at the counter until the owners agreed to meet their demands. It's a proven non-violent protest that works and is very similar to what DDoS does, except instead of human bodies filling up a restaurant you're using http requests to fill up a server. Sorry for the lack of context in the original post.

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#86

Post by rikacomet »

Can we just all calm down? there isn't proof(I haven't seen one yet) that proves that it was DDoS'd, nor do I believe that anyone has come forward to claim it. So why jump to assumptions. When you say,RIP it means to let a friend rest in peace. If any problems are faced by MIT, it shouldn't be blamed on well-wishers of Aaron. Posting it on YC, seems ridiculous to me, as if its a clear accusation, and if its posted here, anyone who did it would just stop.

Indeed it does raises eyebrows, the timing of this, but lets not jump to conclusions without solid facts.

-1 for this article. Sorry Sweettea, No offence meant.

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#87

Post by paupino_masano »

mappu wrote: post #78
paupino_masano wrote: post #3

I'm just getting a blank page - is that what others are seeing?

Yep, totally blank page. JS enabled, no plugins, no caching, Chrome Beta 24 from New Zealand. All HTML loads fine. There's an uncaught TypeError in common.js:40 (looks like jQuery.browser isn't getting defined?) which seems to cause the blogger object to not be created, breaking classic.js and gadgets.js nearly immediately. Ridiculous

Yeah - you're absolutely right. It's to do with this line:

   http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1/jquery.min.js
It seems Google API's have upgraded this particular URL to point to 1.9 which deprecates jQuery.browser. Technically they need to update their template to use something like:

   http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1.8.3/jquery.min.js

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#88

Post by gambomb »

armored_mammal wrote: post #38

If the students have failed to vehemently distance themselves and protest to the administration, or even quit MIT for somewhere else, then they are just as guilty. Their attendance abets the status quo. Especially since it's a private university. Quit whining.

I'm sorry, what? If I were attending MIT today, you can bet that I wouldn't drop out of school over some guy's suicide.

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#89

Post by analog »

gee_totes wrote: post #64
BrokenPipe wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but Aaron's activism resulted in him being bullied until he took his own life. It's a difficult topic. If you assume that ddos from a collective is similar to blocking a road by a collective during a strike or manifestation then I must say that some people won't be able to get to work that day and in general nobody would get hurt. This sort of pacific interruption raises awareness, which by itself is very import…

But why protest student blogs and class websites? Why not target the prosecutor's office? Blockading a key port that is shipping war supplies or preforming a DDOS attack against government websites can be legitimate form of protest, but those actions are very hard to plan and pull off. This attack (if it is an attack) just seems like someone is going after the low-hanging fruit of MIT's network.

This is a common argument against activism and it's a classic logical fallacy.

You're doing X, but Y would be more effective, therefore X is pointless.

In reality what happens is that someone does X and someone else does Y, and it's not uncommon for the same group to do both.

Fwiw, I don't have any view on whether this attack (if it is one) is justified. I haven't read enough on what MIT have/haven't done so I can't comment.

Re: Please Stop Attacking MIT's Network

#90

Post by armored_mammal »

jeremyis wrote: post #72
armored_mammal wrote: post #38

If the students have failed to vehemently distance themselves and protest to the administration, or even quit MIT for somewhere else, then they are just as guilty. Their attendance abets the status quo. Especially since it's a private university. Quit whining.

Does this mean Americans that haven't protested or denounced their citizenship are just as guilty for the sometimes awful things the American government does?

Fortunately protesting at the ballot box allows Americans some measure of escape from culpability for the actions of the US government, however most are still responsible having voted for Democrats or Republicans, the very ones who have put into place many of the policies that are ostensibly so objectionable.

The fact that people find it impossible to keep their hands clean is a fact of life and of human nature, but that shouldn't just excuse everyone. It should be a reason to try for better.

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