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Did porn warp me forever?

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Re: Did porn warp me forever?

#311

Post by notdonspaulding »

illuminate wrote: post #301
notdonspaulding wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don't see how you've refuted any of my claims specifically, I will address your assertion that I should try porn with my wife. Having used porn myself for the majority of my life, and for almost the entirety of my marriage, I have quite a number of empirical data points of its affects on me and my sexuality. I will say that my wife and I need much less of the influence of porn on our sex life, not more.

"While I don't see how you've refuted any of my claims specifically" Your anecdotes don't require disproving. They are just your anecdotes about your particular personality and calling them "empirical" does not give them any more expandability to the whole.

What I offered as claims of the moral/religious position were separate from what I explained my own anecdotal experiences to be. I'm sorry I didn't draw a more clear distinction there.

My "empirical" remark was simply to explain that I have enough knowledge about myself to draw the conclusion that engaging in pornography would not help my marriage. I wasn't expanding it to the whole in any way there.

Re: Did porn warp me forever?

#312

Post by notdonspaulding »

Mz wrote: post #303
mikecaron wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd disagree here. Certain porn might be instructive, but most porn includes violence towards women. Not only that, but in 95% of scenes that included this violence, the women responds either (a) with passive compliance or (b) enjoyment. This is teaching observers, those especially which have never been introduced to sex before, that women desire to be hit, beaten, strangled, raped, etc and if they don't enjoy it or…

I am very sorry to hear that is your position concerning your daughters.

I'm curious. Why? I have at least 2 daughters (with another child on the way, not sure of the sex) and I want them to be as capable as my son at hacking, changing the oil in their cars, and protecting themselves.

This article is timely because the author is on the leading edge of a generation of men whose sexual education during their adolescent years was characterized by unprecedented access to pornography. The world has never seen the result of this being the case for millions of men. It's a father's job to prepare his children to engage in the world they will live in. You can be sure I'm keeping my eye on how having a Big Porn industry will play out for our generation, to give my kids the best chance they have to thrive in theirs.

Re: Did porn warp me forever?

#313

Post by Mz »

notdonspaulding wrote: post #312
Mz wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very sorry to hear that is your position concerning your daughters.

I'm curious. Why? I have at least 2 daughters (with another child on the way, not sure of the sex) and I want them to be as capable as my son at hacking, changing the oil in their cars, and protecting themselves. This article is timely because the author is on the leading edge of a generation of men whose sexual education during their adolescent years was characterized by unprecedented access to pornography. The worl…

I was sexually abused as a girl and raped as a child. When my sons were little, I was pretty sure I would kill someone if they were molested. I thought quite a lot about it and I do not believe escalating the battle of the sexes towards more violence and protection with guns helps the root problem. I think learning to promote a high standard of consent and mutual respect is a better antidote to our current ills.

I speak out at times on forums when women are calling for the death penalty for rape and things like that. I don't think teaching girls to hate, fear, and assault men is a good way to protect them. I think it damages their chances of creating a healthy relationship.Teach them how to recognize disrespect and sidestep it. Teach them men are human too. Teach them about respectful consent. Teach them to honor their right to choose.

I am fine with being willing and able to break bones if necessary. But I am not so fine with the starting assumption of hostility, distrust, and so on or actively promoting that as a firstline defense. A much better firstline defense is raising them in an environment of mutual consent. I wrote some about that here:

http://www.kidslikemine.com/2012/06/13/an-invisible-shield-h...

Re: Did porn warp me forever?

#314

Post by jjhicks »

illuminate wrote: post #298
jjhicks wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

QUOTE -The orgasms gotten through pornography aren't any stronger than those found 'in nature'---this isn't heroine. You have missed the entire point. Orgasm lasts a few seconds. Porn addiction is not about orgasms its about porn. The viewing, searching, clicking from tab to tab on tube sites. Starting in early adolescence, training ones brain to need a certain level of stimulation. For some - hours a day. Dopamine r…

"Porn addiction is not about orgasms its about porn. The viewing, searching, clicking from tab to tab on tube sites. Starting in early adolescence, training ones brain to need a certain level of stimulation. For some - hours a day." This is more obsessive-compulsive behavior than porn-specific.

No its addiction to porn. They are not washing their hands or BS like that.

OCD and addiction each have unique set of brain changes.

Again, its already been established that both behavioral addiction ad drug addictions involves the same basic mechanisms, same brain changes: downregulation of dopamine & D2 receptors, sensitization, hypofronatlity, altered cerebral white matter, altered CRF and stress response, etc. These do not occur in OCD.

Accumulation of One molecule activates the addition process - deltafosb. This does not occur in OCD

Read the START here article on yourbrainonporn and follow all the links. You will find links to articles covering the new DSM-5 which created a behavioral addictions category and to The American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM). America’s top addiction experts at ASAM released their sweeping new definition of addiction which states that sexual behavior addictions exist and involve the same basic mechanisms as substance addiction.

Re: Did porn warp me forever?

#315

Post by illuminate »

notdonspaulding wrote: post #311
illuminate wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"While I don't see how you've refuted any of my claims specifically" Your anecdotes don't require disproving. They are just your anecdotes about your particular personality and calling them "empirical" does not give them any more expandability to the whole.

What I offered as claims of the moral/religious position were separate from what I explained my own anecdotal experiences to be. I'm sorry I didn't draw a more clear distinction there. My "empirical" remark was simply to explain that I have enough knowledge about myself to draw the conclusion that engaging in pornography would not help my marriage. I wasn't expanding it to the whole in any way there.

Ah, then my statement wouldn't apply. My mistake.

Re: Did porn warp me forever?

#316

Post by illuminate »

gizmo686 wrote: post #11
guard-of-terra wrote: post #2

Do we care? The next thing he will suggest: let's censor, let's break the web, let's put people in the jail, let's force parents to spy on their children, let's take parenting rights from ones who don't. Let's create a police state because he doesn't like porn. His problems with porn is just his problems. I suggest dealing with it.

What article did you read? He does not condemn porn. He questions what it means to have a natural sexuality when "Sexiness is always constructed — it used to be normatively hot to be fat and pale! " His problem is not that he has "demons", but that "I feel estranged from my sexuality, like it’s somebody else’s." The piece comes across to me as very self reflective, asking '(why) is this a problem?' 'What would I be l…

"He does not condemn porn. He questions what it means to have a natural sexuality when "Sexiness is always constructed — it used to be normatively hot to be fat and pale! " His problem is not that he has "demons", but that "I feel estranged from my sexuality, like it’s somebody else’s.""

He's projecting his other issues on pornography, though. All of these issues will continue to exist unanswered long after he abandons porno.

Re: Did porn warp me forever?

#317

Post by malandrew »

mikecaron wrote: post #308
malandrew wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed. Your statement is purely speculative otherwise. In fact, a search for "rape vs porn" suggests that it reduces rape: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2006/1... http://www.toddkendall.net/internetcrime.pdf

1. http://pornharmsresearch.com/2012/08/pornography-viewing-amo... 2. http://pornharmsresearch.com/2012/08/effects-of-womens-porno...

My biggest issue with both of those studies, is that they involve self reports with respect to bystander involvement in an emergency. I can think of few other issues in social psychology in which self reporting is going to be wildly out of touch with reality. The only other area in which I can see self reporting being even further out of turn with reality is the subject of conformity. The biggest factor influencing bystander involvement in an emergency is actual experience or training in handling such emergencies and how to resolve them. If you want bystanders to identify a real rape and have them intervene, then you need to train them to identify the difference between consensual sex and non-consensual sex and then train them on the best course of action to stopping the act in question and reporting it. There are numerous examples of studies in social psychology where people self report that they would do X and when put in that exact situation in an experimental setting actually end up doing Y. Situations where the subject is a bystander are among the most notorious for their disconnect between reality and self-reports.

Any study that measures the real impact of porn is going to involve measuring real incidents of rape witnessed or committed by a statistically significant population or porn viewers. Barring actual incident levels, this is crappy research. Asking questions like "Have you ever witnessed a rape in progress? And if so, did you do anything to report it or stop it?" and comparing those numbers to porn viewing habits would be far more valuable. At least in that case it ceases to be based on self-reports of behavior in hypothetical situations and is instead based on correlation of historical fact with porn habits.

Lastly, and I know this is an ad hominem attack, but judging by John Foubert's other research interests, I'd consider his rape research to be tainted and likely to be skewed in favor of demonstrating correlation where there isn't one or demonstrating correlation which is of no consequence but is sensational. Judging by several of his other published papers, Christianity and Spirituality primary areas of research for him. This puts him among a group of people who are impartial and very likely have an agenda with respect to the issue of pornography. ref: http://okstate.academia.edu/JohnFoubert

Do you have any research that compares actual incidents of rape and porn?

Re: Did porn warp me forever?

#318

Post by jrockway »

simplify wrote: post #304
jrockway wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know you've chosen the right side of an argument when everyone one the other side links to a single quack website backed up by anecdotes from "An Internet User".

Is it not true that many informative articles start with anecdotes to illustrate the subject at hand? If you have a problem with the science in the article, please explain; it would help me understand the flaws you are talking about.

The study on addiction linked to covers addiction to injections of MPH. It goes on to say that injected MPH and oral MPH have completely different effects. It follows that none of this generalizes to viewing pornography, seeing how the delivery mechanism is a factor in addiction and the study does not cover viewed material in any manner.

And that's from only reading the first couple sentences.

Re: Did porn warp me forever?

#319

Post by notdonspaulding »

Mz wrote: post #313
notdonspaulding wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious. Why? I have at least 2 daughters (with another child on the way, not sure of the sex) and I want them to be as capable as my son at hacking, changing the oil in their cars, and protecting themselves. This article is timely because the author is on the leading edge of a generation of men whose sexual education during their adolescent years was characterized by unprecedented access to pornography. The worl…

I was sexually abused as a girl and raped as a child. When my sons were little, I was pretty sure I would kill someone if they were molested. I thought quite a lot about it and I do not believe escalating the battle of the sexes towards more violence and protection with guns helps the root problem. I think learning to promote a high standard of consent and mutual respect is a better antidote to our current ills. I sp…

Thank you for sharing that. Your blog post definitely shed much more light onto the context of your comments, so I also appreciate your giving me the chance to keep my foot out of my mouth. ;-)

First, your perspective raises the question for me, "Am I too focused on protecting my (future) teenage daughters, at the expense of not diligently analyzing their current environment?" Your approach here (of emphasizing mutual consent of affection to your young children) seems novel and effective. Was discovering that really the simple and logical progression you laid out in your post, or was there more to it than that?

Second, it seems to me that GP was more concerned with how his daughters might protect themselves from strangers, as adults. Mutual consent might be a good red flag for a slowly escalating sexual assault, but for a more aggressive assault, doesn't physical deterrence seem more appropriate?

In those circumstances, the difference between first-line defense and last-line defense seems incredibly small to me. But then, I'm not a woman and I've never been abused, so I'm probably ill-equipped to speculate there.

Re: Did porn warp me forever?

#320

Post by notdonspaulding »

lizzard wrote: post #188

The really amazing thing about this article is that I'm supposed to care more about this guy's boner, and guilt complex, than I care about the systematic oppression and degradation of my half of the human species. Really . . . What a wanker!

Technically don't you have a little over half of the human species, due to the extra chromosome?

Seriously though, where is the discussion happening about the link between porn and the degradation of women? Is there just no argument against it, or does HN not even realize it's there?

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