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Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

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Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#351
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a genetic disorder. At the time I attempted suicide, I was undiagnosed. In part for that reason, I ended up with severe low blood sugar while also under severe social duress. The short version is that relatives who knew the man I was arguing with had molested me as a child were telling me to "behave" instead of telling him to stfu. The severe low blood sugar interfered with my plans to slash my wrists. Had I b…

Severe duress often cannot be clearly distinguished from "mental illness" I 100% agree with this in terms of its accuracy in describing the symptoms. And I do not think mental illness should be stigmatized any more than other illnesses should be (which is not at all). The key though is that once mental illness occurs, rationality goes out the window. To a large extent causality goes out the window. You can't persuade…

> The key though is that once mental illness occurs, rationality goes out the window.

A minor nitpick: In UK law we have the Mental Capacity Act. People must not be seen as lacking capacity to make decisions just because they have a mental health illness. Even someone detained against their will under section of the Mental Health Act can make decisions about their care.

But your point - "People with major depression and suicidal thinking probably lack capacity to make a rational decision about suicide" is true.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Aaron should man up, take responsibility for his actions, and pay his own bills." ~Ed Sounds like Ed was a bit harsh on someone who was going through allot of trouble. The comment was excessively cruel. Not to mention it was the top comment, which must of added large dosage of salt on an already wounded soul. So he(Ed) rightfully deserves any criticism thrown at him. It's such a tool bag comment, Ed should apologize…

(1) hindsight is 20-20 (2) the facts as we know then today were not readily apparent back then (even to those that were actively seeking those facts) (3) Ed has a longstanding history of compassion and care (4) mistakes were made, but there is nobody to apologise to. Can we please stop the mobbing? Thanks.

and this time he didn't. really. Mobbing and calling out bullshit are not necessarily the same thing.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#353
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a comment below you state NOBODY KNEW THESE DETAILS AT THE TIME That is exactly why judgement should have been deferred. In the face of uncertainty, given the situation, withholding comment or querying neutrally would have been optimal. That is clear with foresight, not just obvious from hindsight. I did not see that thread the first time but it is the tone and not the words that would be so damaging. Man up . Ver…

If everybody withheld comment until they knew the full story, nobody would post on Hacker News. Hell, people still don't know the full story of the Aaron Swartz court case, and yet you see an awful lot of folks willing to comment with the few tidbits they do know right now.

Wow... no-one posting on Hacker News?!?!?! What WOULD we do?

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#354
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(1) hindsight is 20-20 (2) the facts as we know then today were not readily apparent back then (even to those that were actively seeking those facts) (3) Ed has a longstanding history of compassion and care (4) mistakes were made, but there is nobody to apologise to. Can we please stop the mobbing? Thanks.

I really respect Ed Weissman's contributions and knowledge, so this is not meant as any type of personal attack. But I was thinking back when I read this comment four months ago that it seemed unusually harsh for someone who was facing 35 years in prison for something that _might_ deserve a slap on the wrist. So it's not all hindsight. I was also surprised that it was the most-upvoted comment of the thread. And it al…

Aaron was never, even in our most paranoid fantasies revealed true with this case, in danger of actually spending 35 years in prison for this case.

Those who feel otherwise do not understand the U.S. Federal legal system. I would like to think Ed understood this when he wrote his original comment; I remember reading his comment at the time, and the only impression I got was that Aaron "dun goofed" and needed to skip to the part where he gets his light sentence. But that was under my assumption that even failing a jury trial with a strict judge couldn't result in more than a couple of years in prison.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#355
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you "man up" and acknowledge, the comment was not only very distasteful, but extremely vitriolic and damaging for someone who was asking for help. He was asking for help, is this the type of rude comment you make when someone ask for it. Severity wasn't conveyed, what does everything have to be explicitly spelled out for you in order to understand.

You're too emotional to ration with. I hope you stop displacing anger in every which way.

Wow, thats a useful comment, given you have no idea what the op's state of mind actually is

and for the record its "reason with" not "ration with"

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#356
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may or may not have something to say about this, but not here, and not now. Can we please just let the family grieve? We are the family.

I am surprised people have taken issue with the words man up. It's only connotation was that Aaron should pay for his own defense, a reasonable statement. I am more taken aback by the overall tone implying that Aaron had some golden-ticket-chance-of-a-lifetime...In hindsight, I don't think anyone would have wanted to shoulder his burdens. I don't think anyone would still say he had a golden ticket. Probably the great…

You look within. We all need to "man up". Hackers vs. Wankers.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#357
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What information? I'd legitimately appreciate links/sources of the situation's severity other than hindsight.

It was known well in advance of that thread asking for help on HN that Aaron was facing major prison time from the prosecution by the feds, and we also knew a fairly detailed description of his 'crime', i.e. how he didn't really commit one.

6-8 months is not "major" prison time by any reasonable definition of that term.

Using upper limits only for theoretically possible court sentences is the same tactic the RIAA/MPAA uses to characterize copyright infringement damages, and it's just as much of a propaganda tactic in support of aaronsw as it is in support of those clowns.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An honest appraisal? That is one way of looking at it. Another way is he threw out a giant derogatory 'Meh' to someone asking for help. Does he bear responsibility for what happened to Aaron? No, but it is also not hard to see how the top ranked comment from a respected member didn't carry some weight in how people perceived Aaron and his situation. The big take away here is that words matter and maybe if you don't h…

It was, evidently, demoralization that killed Aaron. Ed took away moral support. So don't say he doesn't partly bear some responsibility. Whether you think he deserves a measure of blame or not depends on whether you think his original remark was just or not. Evidently some could not tell ahead of time that the remarks were unjust, and evidently, this sort of person makes up the majority on HN, and it is just this so…

What am I missing here?

Did Ed know Aaron and tell him this publicly?

Or are you simply saying the act of making the original post on HN amounts to taking away moral support and consequently Ed bears some responsibility?

If so (and please correct me if that's not what you are saying) then I don't agree with that. What you are implying is that people can't speak their mind in a public forum about how they feel about something. (That has already happened with this issue as I've gotten some bullying behavior by someone simply because I questioned something because everyone is so worked up over this.). Or, perhaps people who are thought leaders (and/or top commenters on, say HN) need to be especially careful of what they say. Specifically what their opinion is which others are free to use their mind and agree or disagree with.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#359
post #104

[deleted]

EDIT: updated as tptacek appears to have deleted all his contributions to this thread. Agreed (with tptacek's deleted comment that people should lay off Weissman). Imagine if we all entered discussions assuming the other party was in an extremely fragile state. No skepticism, speculation, conjecture, kid gloves, boring. Anyone who's cultivated an online persona has dealt with a variety of debating opponents. I can't…

> [1] I'm also not implying you hold contrary public and private positions. Your advocacy of a more government / corporate friendly position goes well beyond devil's advocacy.

Yeah, I don't think his default pro-establishment slant is any sort of strategic business move. One would think that if he held different views privately he would just abstain from talking about those potentially politically troubling topics.

For better or worse, I think he says what he thinks, and means it. I am inclined to file that under "positive attributes".

(I am one of those "really irked" HN commentators.)

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#360
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

his point is pretty clear @tptacek - he's saying that just because edw519 didnt know the facts - doesnt make it okay for him to have been a caustic douche back then.

He made a judgement based on the information provided to him. It wasn't conveyed in a nice tone, sure, and that's unfortunate. I'd prefer if everyone was nice, but sometimes things just come out really, really nasty. The usual consequence is to take your downvotes/criticisms and move on...not to become the center of some impromptu witch hunt.

Aaron Swartz is dead. Ok? this isn't a school yard fight, its not some bullshit water cooler argument. One of the top karma recipients on this site, who hawked a freaking book of his comments shit on supporting Aaron in a very public way. Calling it out for the cold bullshit it is is not a witch hunt, its honesty.
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