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Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

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Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#291

Post by ameen »

angrycoder wrote: post #183
[deleted] wrote: post #104

[deleted]

An honest appraisal? That is one way of looking at it. Another way is he threw out a giant derogatory 'Meh' to someone asking for help. Does he bear responsibility for what happened to Aaron? No, but it is also not hard to see how the top ranked comment from a respected member didn't carry some weight in how people perceived Aaron and his situation. The big take away here is that words matter and maybe if you don't h…

This reminds me of a relevant quote, and its relevance increases as you dissect it.

“Four things come back not: the spoken word; the sped arrow; time past; the neglected opportunity.”

- Umar ibn al-Khattab, Caliph (AD 592-644)

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#293

Post by mark-r »

colin_jack wrote: post #264
mark-r wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably the problem wasn't in asking for funds, the problem was in explaining why the funds were necessary. I read a recent story, probably linked here on HN, about how standard procedure for the Justice dept. is to freeze all your funds so you can't afford adequate representation, then dump so much paperwork on you that you have no chance to defend yourself. All of this would have been facts related to the case w…

Would you happen to have a link?

Edit: found it, http://www.forbes.com/sites/harveysilverglate/2013/01/03/bla...

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#294

Post by thaumaturgy »

andrewfelix wrote: post #267
thaumaturgy wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He gave his honest appraisal of what was happening in a current events story on a message board, based on the facts available to us at the time, which included none of the outrageous details that have come to light in the last few days. So, so true. I mean, it's not like people could have simply, y'know, avoided speculating publicly on another person's case when they didn't have all the facts. No, don't go trying t…

Do we know Ed doesn't suffer from depression? The hypocrisy of the TC article is disgusting. They're recklessly throwing stones at people who may be in delicate positions themselves. As far as I can tell the TC article was designed to elicit an emotional reaction without any consideration given to human cost. TC needs to do the naval gazing here.

TC is far from my favorite online news thingy, and perhaps there is room for them to do some consideration too, but that doesn't mean that HN isn't also overdue for some introspection in how people are treated here.

I don't know much about Ed, only met him briefly once, but that said, most people here (myself included) have gone out of their way to voice their support for him as a member here and regret that it was his comment that got hilighted on TC.

I don't know how else TC could have pointed out this aspect of the HN community without picking on someone; in a way, it might be best that they picked on one of the most well-liked contributors here.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#295

Post by chernevik »

I see zero inconsistency between on one day saying that someone should take personal responsibility for their activism, and on another day regretting that this same person took their own life.

The notion that Aaron's legal position caused his suicide is an opinion of many people on this board. Despite the numbers of those holding this opinion, it is still only an opinion, and needn't be read as fact for any other analysis or opinion. The insistence that everyone hold _your_ opinions for all of _their_ opinions and moral calculations is, at very best, deeply problematic.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#296

Post by jacquesm »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #222
jacquesm wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what do you think the odds are that Aaron himself read the comments of a few threads posted here about his case? About 100% or so. That's the bit that hurts the most. The simple solution is this: If you're going to say something positive, absent information feel free to do so. On the other hand, if you're going to say something negative you'd better make damn sure you know what it is that you're talking about. If y…

Jacques, incidentally, I think you deserve some praise for being a real stand-up guy here. Aside from being generally a heck of a decent person, you're one of the few here who seems to have taken some actual action throughout this -- reaching out to Aaron to offer assistance, and, later, contacting Lessig to follow up on the EFF's involvement.

I don't think I deserve any praise at all. I had my eyes firmly closed when it mattered (and I really should have known better) and nothing came of the things I did.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#297

Post by dkl »

andrewfelix wrote: post #267
thaumaturgy wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He gave his honest appraisal of what was happening in a current events story on a message board, based on the facts available to us at the time, which included none of the outrageous details that have come to light in the last few days. So, so true. I mean, it's not like people could have simply, y'know, avoided speculating publicly on another person's case when they didn't have all the facts. No, don't go trying t…

Do we know Ed doesn't suffer from depression? The hypocrisy of the TC article is disgusting. They're recklessly throwing stones at people who may be in delicate positions themselves. As far as I can tell the TC article was designed to elicit an emotional reaction without any consideration given to human cost. TC needs to do the naval gazing here.

The hypocrisy of the TC article is disgusting. They're recklessly throwing stones at people who may be in delicate positions themselves.

As soon as I saw it was written by Arrington, I hit the back button. That tells me all I need to know. He's an attention whore.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#298

Post by citricsquid »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #286
citricsquid wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh of course, they're very different things that have very different motivations and very different results, what I'm trying to argue is that they are both actions that come from an interest in the subject at hand. If you act on something (regardless of the specifics of that action) then you're making a commitment to that subject. The point is every single person that acted on that post was doing it under exactly the…

> If everyone took the line you're talking about, "I don't know the full story (because nobody ever can) so I'm not going to pass any judgement"... sigh. I never said that. I have no idea how you got from "comment publicly" to "pass judgement".

I think I'm misunderstanding the point you're making, I'm not much good at interpreting things. From what I understand of your comment:

    That is what is wrong with saying, "just accept the consequences", 
    when you have no damn idea what the consequences are.
I think you're saying that he shouldn't have passed judgement because he wasn't aware of the situation, although now reading your emphasis on ""comment publicly" to "pass judgement"" I suspect you may have meant that edw519 is at fault for his specific action (commenting that he thought Aaron should accept the consequences) not for thinking that Aaron should have accepted the consequences? If that's the case then my comment will not have been particularly relevant, sorry about that.

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#299

Post by [deleted] »

angrycoder wrote: post #183
[deleted] wrote: post #104

[deleted]

An honest appraisal? That is one way of looking at it. Another way is he threw out a giant derogatory 'Meh' to someone asking for help. Does he bear responsibility for what happened to Aaron? No, but it is also not hard to see how the top ranked comment from a respected member didn't carry some weight in how people perceived Aaron and his situation. The big take away here is that words matter and maybe if you don't h…

[deleted]

Re: Aaron Swartz, Asking For Help, 119 Days Ago

#300

Post by cstejerean »

[deleted] wrote: post #104

[deleted]

I find it odd that everyone here is pointing fingers at edw519 for his 1 comment on that thread, when there were several comments from tptacek that I think did far more to sway public opinion at the time.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529706 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529716 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529781 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529799 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529809 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529855 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529883 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529965

In the abstract he had very valid points, but in the context of that specific thread I think he did a pretty effective job at convincing people that

* Aaron did something wrong * JSTOR backing out doesn't really mean anything * the prosecution is justified in trying to make an example of him * Aaron probably won't serve serious time, this is just a scare tactic

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