Rails has Two Default Stacks
words.steveklabnik.com
Rails has Two Default Stacks
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Re: Rails has Two Default Stacks
#2For the people who've ended up on the delta/Prime stack it's because they've already done the 37Signals stack, found where it works and where it doesn't, learnt their lessons and found something that works better for them. The problem is when they espouse it as the One True Rails Stack it muddies the waters for newbies, and people who've been building quite happily with the defaults and just need some more information.
Your choice of stack is great, and it's great you're passionate about it but if you start acting like a giant dick about it you're actually dissuading people from getting more involved, and that's not a good thing.
Re: Rails has Two Default Stacks
#3Using Steve's definitions from the article, the tutorial I usually point people to is Michael Hartl's Rails Tutorial http://ruby.railstutorial.org/ which uses the "Prime" stack. I believe I read somewhere that Michael was going to come out with a "37 signals" stack version as well.
One message I'd like people to understand when they're starting out with Rails is that it really is confusing, and that being confused and maybe even feeling stupid is normal! I remember hearing people talk about how easy developing Rails applications was back in 2006, but what I didn't know was it was easy relative to other web frameworks at the time. It's still hard.
By analogy, if you're an intermediate skiier and you visit a well-groomed mountain with great, powdery snow you could say "this mountain is easy to ski on". But if you're just learning to ski, and you follow everyone else up the lift to the top of a blue run, it's a terrifying experience trying to get down the slope without breaking your neck. To add insult to injury, it's discouraging to see everyone else gliding down the slope while you're shimmying down on your butt because when you try to stand you lose control, go way too fast, then crash. New skiiers need bunny hills, then green runs, then blue runs.
I still don't think there's an established "bunny hill" and "green run" track for learning Rails. Sure would like to help someone create one.
Re: Rails has Two Default Stacks
#4Using Steve's definitions from the article, the tutorial I usually point people to is Michael Hartl's Rails Tutorial http://ruby.railstutorial.org/ which uses the "Prime" stack. I believe I read somewhere that Michael was going to come out with a "37 signals" stack version as well. One message I'd like people to understand when they're starting out with Rails is that it really is confusing, and that being confused an…
> Sure would like to help someone create one.
Something like this would be very appropriate for a Rails Guide. We already have an introductory one, an 'intermediate' and 'advanced' one would be helpful.
Re: Rails has Two Default Stacks
#5Someone told me earlier today that 'Starting Rails today is like starting to watch a soap opera in the 7th season.' Like most witty statements, there’s both truth and falsehood here. But, as a newcomer, how do you pick between the 37signals Stack and the Prime Stack?
How many parts of Rails can you swap out before it stops being Rails?
Maybe the simplest solution here would be to call the Prime Stack something different. Even "Rails Prime" would work. Just some nomenclature that says to people "hey, just so you know, what I'm going to talk about here is different than what 37signals is talking about."
Re: Rails has Two Default Stacks
#6This is one of the strongest arguments I've seen for simply starting with the "default" stack. Move to other stuff when you feel the pain. If you're teaching or just starting off with Rails, don't use the "Prime" stack stuff until you really need it.
Re: Rails has Two Default Stacks
#7Someone told me earlier today that 'Starting Rails today is like starting to watch a soap opera in the 7th season.' Like most witty statements, there’s both truth and falsehood here. But, as a newcomer, how do you pick between the 37signals Stack and the Prime Stack? How many parts of Rails can you swap out before it stops being Rails? Maybe the simplest solution here would be to call the Prime Stack something differ…
> How many parts of Rails can you swap out before it stops being Rails?
Rails is meant to be modular, it just doesn't stop being Rails.
Re: Rails has Two Default Stacks
#8Using Steve's definitions from the article, the tutorial I usually point people to is Michael Hartl's Rails Tutorial http://ruby.railstutorial.org/ which uses the "Prime" stack. I believe I read somewhere that Michael was going to come out with a "37 signals" stack version as well. One message I'd like people to understand when they're starting out with Rails is that it really is confusing, and that being confused an…
One message I'd like people to understand when they're starting out with Rails is that it really is confusing, and that being confused and maybe even feeling stupid is normal!
But if you care about Rails uptake, aren't those bad things?
People don't like being confused. People don't like feeling stupid. If their initial impression of a system is "this is confusing" or "this makes me feel stupid," many if not most will simply go look for an alternative that isn't confusing and doesn't make them feel stupid, even if that alternative is inferior in other ways that aren't immediately apparent to the newbie.
Re: Rails has Two Default Stacks
#9This is one of the strongest arguments I've seen for simply starting with the "default" stack. Move to other stuff when you feel the pain. If you're teaching or just starting off with Rails, don't use the "Prime" stack stuff until you really need it.
One of the things that got me thinking about this was the recent security issues. I was helping people on Skype upgrade their apps, because they were new, and they got into Gem Version Hell. Only pulling in fancy gems when you need it helps when you _really_ need to upgrade, and you're not stuck figuring out why twitter-bootstrap-rails, therubyracer, and libv8 (in this example, obviously, it could be any combination of gems) all refuse to get on board.
If you're using the default stack, the number of dependencies you have drops quite a bit.
Re: Rails has Two Default Stacks
#10Using Steve's definitions from the article, the tutorial I usually point people to is Michael Hartl's Rails Tutorial http://ruby.railstutorial.org/ which uses the "Prime" stack. I believe I read somewhere that Michael was going to come out with a "37 signals" stack version as well. One message I'd like people to understand when they're starting out with Rails is that it really is confusing, and that being confused an…
One message I'd like people to understand when they're starting out with Rails is that it really is confusing, and that being confused and maybe even feeling stupid is normal! But if you care about Rails uptake, aren't those bad things ? People don't like being confused. People don't like feeling stupid. If their initial impression of a system is "this is confusing" or "this makes me feel stupid," many if not most wi…
I agree with you, which is the reason why I think PHP is still way more popular than Rails. Cut-and-pasting scripts from Google searches is a terrible way to make code, but it works and it's a lot easier.
I agree with DHH that Rails shouldn't be dumbed down (see his Railsconf 2012 talk https://37signals.com/svn/posts/3171-keynote-by-david-from-r...). Cooking with Rails is like cooking with a real oven, not an easy bake where the end product tastes terrible. Somehow new people need to know that Rails is a real framework that can burn you if you're not careful.