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MIT President on Aaron Swartz

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Re: MIT President on Aaron Swartz

#171

Post by asswartz2 »

josdewolk wrote: post #167
asswartz wrote: post #139

Sorry but as far as i can tell from reading about this guy his main area of expertise seemed to be throwing away the opportunities that kept chasing him and i find it hard to see why he's held up as such a hero/martyr. First, he didn't create the RSS single-handledly for us. He was part of a committee of about a dozen people that took over RSS from Netscape when they didn't support it anymore. Admittedly that's impre…

It must have been difficult to write the counter-point to all the eulogies popping up. I appreciate that someone did it here, just as I was grateful to see a few counter-points pop up after Steve Jobs. From what I've read in the positive eulogies, I'm sure Aaron Schwarz would have appreciated a balanced conversation about his life.

Thank you! Finally, someone that gets it.

I wish people would actually engage (reply to my points) instead of spewing bile at me, though. :/

Edit: Like jacquesm, apparently.

Re: MIT President on Aaron Swartz

#172

Post by panacea »

asswartz wrote: post #156
todayiamme wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote you; >>> It was only because this guy had academic and tech industry protectors who backed their precious manbaby that JSTOR and MIT were reluctant to pursue the issue themselves. I would argue that you are not a critic as the above statement is not a reasoned stance or observation; it is vitriol. Giving respect to someone's life irrespective of the differences you may have had is not about right or wrong. N…

Do you actually have anything that actually addresses my points?

"my points"

Your points? You choose a username of a deceased person to disparage them and then expect to be talked to with civility? You are an archetypal troll.

Re: MIT President on Aaron Swartz

#173

Post by Mz »

panacea wrote: post #172
asswartz wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually have anything that actually addresses my points?

"my points" Your points? You choose a username of a deceased person to disparage them and then expect to be talked to with civility? You are an archetypal troll.

So stop feeding the troll. Downvote and/or flag and move on.

(I am suggesting this for everyone, not just you. Nothing personal. I am replying to your post because you summed the problem up so well.)

Re: MIT President on Aaron Swartz

#174

Post by lelandbatey »

asswartz2 wrote: post #166
doktrin wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> He's obviously biased Judging by your throwaway account and incendiary comments, it seems you would know a thing or two about bias. The expert witness cited established his credentials while presenting his viewpoint. I'm sure his assertions could be disputed, but he was upfront about his background and professional opinion. You, on the other hand, are currently an anonymous Internet troll.

If you condemn my assertions because I'm anonymous, then you must condemn Aaron's actions for the same reason, for he did them anonymously also. Incidentally, the "expert witness" said a bald-faced lie, that Aaron did not try to hide his tracks. It is not a "disputed assertion."

Ignoring most everything going on in this thread:

I'd be very interested to see citations for this evidence that Aaron Schwartz did try to disguise himself, and the details of that disguise. That evidence does change the discussion, and it is important that we see what you are talking about.

Re: MIT President on Aaron Swartz

#175

Post by rexreed »

asswartz wrote: post #148
rexreed wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may or may not be the case, but despite that he has followers and fans and supporters in the hundreds if not more, and that's an accomplishment that many others do not have. Regardless of his accomplishments whether they be in full or partial, he stood for something and in the end suffered because of it. And this is why so many are moved by what has happened.

1) Getting followers/fans is not an accomplishment, unless you consider (say) Snooki "more accomplished" than your hero. 2) He didn't suffer because he stood for something, he suffered because he got caught , which he didn't foresee. Subtle difference. Too bad he couldn't handle it.

It would seem to me that the caliber of those that support him and speak for him are of a different type than those that support and follow Snooki. The ones certainly that are speaking up for him now and have given him respect are certainly ones that I respect.

And I know him as much, or as little, as you, so I don't idolize or hero worship him -- I'm fairly new to this whole conversation. I wouldn't presume that he would be my hero any more than I would assume he is your nemesis. I'm just not as ready to denounce someone I know so little about. I am not saying that your points are incorrect, it is just that they don't acknowledge that those that DO indeed know him well have chosen to put their faith and support in him, regardless of whether or not he was as unaccomplished or as malicious as you say he was.

Re: MIT President on Aaron Swartz

#177

Post by noonespecial »

kristenlee wrote: post #7

Aaron Swartz was mentally ill and committed suicide as a direct result of his mental illness. He comtemplated suicide in 2007 long before any of this DOJ stuff happened. http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/dying Furthermore the "glorification" of his suicide is doing nothing more but encouraging other suicidal "hackers" to go over the edge so they have their "story" and inconsequential blog posts plastered all of Hacker Ne…

I'm not going to try to wade into the fearful fog of correlation vs causation. I know very little about Aaron, or the case.

Instead, I'd just like to try an analogy on for size. Two people are blindfolded and beaten equally during a robbery. One, a 20 year old, suffered only minor injuries, the second, a 70 year old woman with a heart condition, died from a stress induced heart attack during the beating.

Was she murdered or did she die naturally of a heart condition?

Its possible the prosecution knew all about Aaron's depression and history. That might actually make what they did worse and not better. He clearly needed the help you speak of... his "crimes" may even have been a symptom. Did anyone consider this or try to help him?

Re: MIT President on Aaron Swartz

#178

Post by Evbn »

unreal37 wrote: post #161
nitrogen wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being labeled as a felon, with the implications thereof regarding voting, employment, serving on a jury, etc. is hardly an option worth considering.

So the two options were: 1) Plead not guilty, case drags on for years, costs $millions to defend, get convicted, serve 2-3 years in jail, unable to fight for something you believe in during that time 2) Plead guilty, case is over quickly, not expensive to defend, get convicted, serve 2-3 months in jail, get on with fighting for something you believe in I would say option #2 is "worth considering".

Different people have different standards. Maybe Aarons choice helped protect people who follow in his footsteps.

Re: MIT President on Aaron Swartz

#179

Post by Evbn »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #114
jacquesm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and if you looked carefully you'll notice that he didn't actually do anything until he was threatened with spending a life in jail and being bankrupted , without the option to get off without pleading guilty. And all that for trying to do something good. You describe yourself as a 'public interest lawyer'. I suggest you try to live up to that title and have the public interest at heart. The subject of your littl…

He wasn't merely threatened with being bankrupted. He was bankrupted, and was having to rely on family for support as I understand it.

If only Reddit had taken on more ads, Aaron might have had enough wealth to fight.

Re: MIT President on Aaron Swartz

#180

Post by Evbn »

jlgreco wrote: post #83
sampo wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have to admit that I have no idea how I would react to being pushed by the system to this extent. What about trying to apply for a political asylum in some other country?

Probably a bad idea to mention that you might consider that in such a permanent and easily query-able forum, lest you ever actually have to do that. It would suck to be sitting in a court room some day and have yourself declared a flight risk because you said on hacker news a few years ago that you would absolutely be a flight risk. On an unrelated note, I have always admired Socrates' response to Crito.

You overestimate prosecutors by a large margin here.
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