How and why the US Justice Department over-prosecutes
susiebright.blogs.com
How and why the US Justice Department over-prosecutes
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Re: How and why the US Justice Department over-prosecutes
#2I never thought about that but it does make sense: the prosecutors get professional advancement based on numbers, not the quality of cases.
We had a dinner party last night and everyone at the table thought that the US has serious citizen rights, etc. problems and the situation is getting worse.
Re: How and why the US Justice Department over-prosecutes
#3I never thought about that but it does make sense: the prosecutors get professional advancement based on numbers, not the quality of cases. We had a dinner party last night and everyone at the table thought that the US has serious citizen rights, etc. problems and the situation is getting worse.
And let's not even get started on the problems if you're not a citizen.
Trivial example: at the 29c3, an NSA whistleblower was complaining that the NSA was now eavesdropping on US citizens, oh the outrage! And explicitly listed the UN human rights conventions...forgetting that those same human rights conventions apply to the people he'd been eavesdropping on for the last 30-40 years with no problems whatsoever, the very people he was giving this presentation to.
Re: How and why the US Justice Department over-prosecutes
#4How can it be fixed?
Re: How and why the US Justice Department over-prosecutes
#5How can it be fixed?
At root this is a philosophical problem. The professional philosophers have created a disarray in the field of values, claiming that they are subjective and arbitrary, and that's resulted in the inability of people to rally around common, objective values of right and wrong. And when you say something like this, you generally just get what these philosophers have said repeated back to you, and some weak-kneed alternative to saying "this is right, that is wrong", which is precisely why we are where we are.
Re: How and why the US Justice Department over-prosecutes
#6Slightly less sinister hypothesis: aaronsw turned down a slap on the wrist plea bargain. The prosecutor charged the maximum because it is a waste of time to take a guy to federal court over a $20k fine and a year of probation.
You know that maximum about malice, incompetence, etc.? I'm not saying I _know_ for sure but it strikes me that most people think they are doing good in the world and I don't get why this prosecutor isn't getting the same benefit of doubt. Actually, I kind of do. Aaron was one of the community's favorites and to some degree that trumps truth-finding.
Re: How and why the US Justice Department over-prosecutes
#7How can it be fixed?
At root this is a philosophical problem. The professional philosophers have created a disarray in the field of values, claiming that they are subjective and arbitrary, and that's resulted in the inability of people to rally around common, objective values of right and wrong. And when you say something like this, you generally just get what these philosophers have said repeated back to you, and some weak-kneed alterna…
No offense, but I think I'll listen to systems thinkers and legal experts rather than philosophers for a little while.
Re: How and why the US Justice Department over-prosecutes
#8Slightly less sinister hypothesis: aaronsw turned down a slap on the wrist plea bargain. The prosecutor charged the maximum because it is a waste of time to take a guy to federal court over a $20k fine and a year of probation. You know that maximum about malice, incompetence, etc.? I'm not saying I _know_ for sure but it strikes me that most people think they are doing good in the world and I don't get why this prose…
Why not just drop the fucking case then? Jesus, how many millions of our tax dollars were spent doing our best to drive this kid to suicide?
JSTOR didn't want prosecution and arguably neither did MIT.
I can't stand these justifications that seem to make everyone a slave to the machine. Heck, you and I break hundreds of laws a day, maybe even a felony or two or three. Federal prosecutors can do whatever they want with us. We have no power over them. We can at least expect them to go after real crime with real victims instead of political activists.
If we lived by these "go by the letter of the law and prosecute everyone who breaks any law" ideals then literally everyone except newborns would be in prison.
Re: How and why the US Justice Department over-prosecutes
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
At root this is a philosophical problem. The professional philosophers have created a disarray in the field of values, claiming that they are subjective and arbitrary, and that's resulted in the inability of people to rally around common, objective values of right and wrong. And when you say something like this, you generally just get what these philosophers have said repeated back to you, and some weak-kneed alterna…
No offense, but I think I'll listen to systems thinkers and legal experts rather than philosophers for a little while.
And this is different from the status quo how? How does running to the same group of "experts" who have engineered our social systems help? Note how conditioned the response is: you see a problem with the system, you're conditioned to trust in the system (and its approved representatives) to give you answers.
You're part of the problem of course. You and everyone like you. By rejecting philosophy you reject ethics and therefore any possible means of addressing these systematic problems.
Re: How and why the US Justice Department over-prosecutes
#10Slightly less sinister hypothesis: aaronsw turned down a slap on the wrist plea bargain. The prosecutor charged the maximum because it is a waste of time to take a guy to federal court over a $20k fine and a year of probation. You know that maximum about malice, incompetence, etc.? I'm not saying I _know_ for sure but it strikes me that most people think they are doing good in the world and I don't get why this prose…
As Lessig reported, the plea bargain would have meant pleading guilty to a felony.
http://lessig.tumblr.com/post/40347463044/prosecutor-as-bull...
In that world, the question this government needs to
answer is why it was so necessary that Aaron Swartz be
labeled a “felon.” For in the 18 months of negotiations,
that was what he was not willing to accept, and so that
was the reason he was facing a million dollar trial in
April — his wealth bled dry, yet unable to appeal openly
to us for the financial help he needed to fund his
defense, at least without risking the ire of a district
court judge. And so as wrong and misguided and fucking sad
as this is, I get how the prospect of this fight,
defenseless, made it make sense to this brilliant but
troubled boy to end it.
Sign the petition if you don't want Aaron's death to be in vain. He helped start the movement against SOPA for us, it is the least we can do for him.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/remove-united-stat...