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1/13 noon at MIT: Protest wrongful prosecution of Aaron Swartz

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Re: 1/13 noon at MIT: Protest wrongful prosecution of Aaron Swartz

#61
post #41

I've been taking all of this in trying to both formulate a reasonably valid mental framework to understand and, yes, be able to personally judge or form an opinion about this entire story. Not an easy task when you don't have direct knowledge of the facts and the people involved and, to make matters worst, morons add noise to the wire. To say that this is a catastrophe at many levels is an understatement. This should…

> At some level you do have to blame him. No, not for downloading files but rather for making the decision to end his life. Nobody but him made that decision. At the risk of being branded insensitive, I do have to agree with this sentiment. My view on Aaron's suicide is much the same as that of the nurse Jacintha Saldanha last month [1]. In both cases, these people were subjected to incredible stress and anguish by e…

Even if he wasn't on 'suicide watch', the last sentences of his last posts should now be read with a new eye.

> Thus Master Wayne is left without solutions. Out of options, it’s no wonder the series ends with his staged suicide.

> But Movie Joe somehow is able to foresee this future and concludes the only way to prevent it is to kill himself.

They have been wrote a few months ago but ... well. It's a weird coincidence.

Re: 1/13 noon at MIT: Protest wrongful prosecution of Aaron Swartz

#62
post #45

Just for Aaron? Oh man, what about every one else? US law is insane, hurting too many people to list. Mostly, Americans, but also world citizens who don't even get to vote in the US. You need to deal with law its self, not this one single individual. Not just the law, but I suspect your entire value system. I had sympathy yesterday, but this is turning in to hero martyr worship. Its getting ridiculous. Step back and…

OP here. I found the tweet that announced the idea, and shared. Agree today doesn't seem very organized. Maybe there will be just 5 people, but I'll have an open mind.

Today I'm going to exercise our right to peaceably assemble. I'm not going to bring a sign, nor yell, nor point fingers, nor hero worship.

I want to meet other hackers who care enough about what happened to meet, if only for a bit, in person. And, it isn't just enough to meet in person. The gesture can be visible, open in location that has significance to this story.

To simply bear witness to shared grief and concern.

Re: 1/13 noon at MIT: Protest wrongful prosecution of Aaron Swartz

#63
post #45

Just for Aaron? Oh man, what about every one else? US law is insane, hurting too many people to list. Mostly, Americans, but also world citizens who don't even get to vote in the US. You need to deal with law its self, not this one single individual. Not just the law, but I suspect your entire value system. I had sympathy yesterday, but this is turning in to hero martyr worship. Its getting ridiculous. Step back and…

> Think about Kim Dotcom, Bradley, the British bloke you chaps tried to get, copyright stuff, patent stuff, hell, think about damn drone strikes which I assume will begin to happen in the US eventually.

Well there's no common thread that binds those situations so the message is... "things are bad, we are angry"?

No, the focus on this particular case is better than a vague outpouring of frustration.

Re: 1/13 noon at MIT: Protest wrongful prosecution of Aaron Swartz

#64
It's really sad, I'm younger than Aaron and he was like an example of a white hat hacker, great example.

It's sad that people started to protest after his death, hey, where you'we been before?

Had anyone imaged that Aaron decided to suicede just to wake people up, he did so many great things and was so altruistic for to internet freedom that this could be a real scenario...

RIP

Re: 1/13 noon at MIT: Protest wrongful prosecution of Aaron Swartz

#65
post #45

Just for Aaron? Oh man, what about every one else? US law is insane, hurting too many people to list. Mostly, Americans, but also world citizens who don't even get to vote in the US. You need to deal with law its self, not this one single individual. Not just the law, but I suspect your entire value system. I had sympathy yesterday, but this is turning in to hero martyr worship. Its getting ridiculous. Step back and…

Of course, all of these other cases are ridiculous as well. And there have been protests about many of them. Should we not protest one injustice because another has been committed?

> Look at the lot of it in this blokes name, not just one tiny insignificant part of it.

Do you believe that everyone here cares only about Aaron Swartz, and not the rest of these issues?

The death of Aaron Swartz is a particularly painful wake-up call, but it doesn't mean that people care only about him. It helps that he was a particularly sympathetic character, and that many people in this community knew him personally or were directly involved in his work and writing. Kim Dotcom is a international millionaire, who was violating copyright for substantial personal profit, and who had a mansion with a built-in bunker for just this sort of problem; and has been able to use his wealth and power to much more successfully defend himself. Bradley Manning is more sympathetic, but he did violate his duty to his country by revealing many secret documents that he had access to, without being particularly selective about anything that really showed abuses.

Aaron, on the other hand, was merely trying to preserve access to a large body of academic and scientific work. Nothing he did ever indicated that he intended to profit from his downloading. Heck, he never even distributed any of it. And while he used some techniques that were further into the grey-zone than many of us would try, the prosecution was so clearly out of proportion with the "crime" as to make the absurdity apparent to almost anyone (and the fact that it's treated as a crime rather than a civil matter is patently absurd as well).

It has always been the case that martyrs, or particular example of people persecuted by a system, are far more effective than general complaints about entire populations. There were millions of black people who had been treated unfairly, made to use separate bathrooms, drinking fountains, sit in the back of the bus, before Rosa Parks decided one day that she wouldn't take it any more and refused to move, leading to her arrest, and subsequently leading to bus boycotts and the case that eventually worked its way to the Supreme Court ruling that segregation on the bus system was illegal.

Putting a face on injustice is so much more effective than simply talking about it in the abstract. And when that face is a brilliant and well loved young man, who had many influential connections in the tech industry, who was working in the interests of knowledge and social justice, rather than some kid downloading the latest Hollywood blockbuster or an international millionaire trying to make a buck, it will be much more effective.

The stakes have been raised. We cannot sacrifice our future, and our freedom, in the interests of failing business models.

Re: 1/13 noon at MIT: Protest wrongful prosecution of Aaron Swartz

#66
I have been digesting this news for a day and even though Aaron was a complete stranger to me, I can't remember feeling outrage this persistent in my entire life.

This was an attack on freedom not carried out by a confused and brainwashed group of people desperate for their lives due to living in an impoverished country or warzone. It was an organised attack, meant to ruin a person's life and deter anyone who wants to fight for information freedom, coordinated by well off, educated people who made conscious choices, had access to all the facts, were reminded repeatedly by the media how ridiculous and immoral their actions were and did it all for the political and financial benefit of special interests and the serfdom of everyone else.

These people were informed, they had to know how malevolent they were acting towards Aaron and those who try to maintain freedom and democracy in the digital world. They were aware and still chose to try to ruin his life even though he was clearly acting entirely in the interest of others and doing it in a manner that was civil and non violent. They did it just because he was smarter than most and thus a greater threat to entrenched powers. The level of evil here is truly off the scale. The fact that it resulted in his death is just... I'm at a loss for words.

And they call themselves department of justice.

Re: 1/13 noon at MIT: Protest wrongful prosecution of Aaron Swartz

#67
post #54

I've been taking all of this in trying to both formulate a reasonably valid mental framework to understand and, yes, be able to personally judge or form an opinion about this entire story. Not an easy task when you don't have direct knowledge of the facts and the people involved and, to make matters worst, morons add noise to the wire. To say that this is a catastrophe at many levels is an understatement. This should…

> If it is true that MIT initiated this and they, along with JSTOR, could have made tons of noise to pull back the DOJ, they really need to engage in deep introspection in order to make sure this never happens again. A person suspected of breaking federal law will be prosecuted by the Federal government at its own discretion. The alleged victims get no say in that. Their forgiveness may be taken into account by a jud…

In fact, a federal prosecutor would be behaving in an impeachable way to fail to pursue a violation of federal law.

Citation needed.

Particularly considering the fact that prosecutors do not have the resources to pursue all violations of federal law. Doubly so given that multiple states currently have extremely uneven enforcement of federal law around the sale of marijuana.

Selective enforcement is a reality.

Re: 1/13 noon at MIT: Protest wrongful prosecution of Aaron Swartz

#69

I have been digesting this news for a day and even though Aaron was a complete stranger to me, I can't remember feeling outrage this persistent in my entire life. This was an attack on freedom not carried out by a confused and brainwashed group of people desperate for their lives due to living in an impoverished country or warzone. It was an organised attack, meant to ruin a person's life and deter anyone who wants t…

I couldn't have put it better. Aaron was a stranger to me as well, but I feel the deepest of grief for him. And for our society.

Re: 1/13 noon at MIT: Protest wrongful prosecution of Aaron Swartz

#70
post #67
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it is true that MIT initiated this and they, along with JSTOR, could have made tons of noise to pull back the DOJ, they really need to engage in deep introspection in order to make sure this never happens again. A person suspected of breaking federal law will be prosecuted by the Federal government at its own discretion. The alleged victims get no say in that. Their forgiveness may be taken into account by a jud…

In fact, a federal prosecutor would be behaving in an impeachable way to fail to pursue a violation of federal law. Citation needed. Particularly considering the fact that prosecutors do not have the resources to pursue all violations of federal law. Doubly so given that multiple states currently have extremely uneven enforcement of federal law around the sale of marijuana. Selective enforcement is a reality.

Federal prosecutors swear an oath to uphold all federal laws, and are generally bound by that oath unless an executive order by the president directs them not to enforce a particular law (in which case the president, not the prosecutor, would be subject to potential impeachment).

State and local prosecutors do not have the resources to pursue violations of federal law; they also do not have the jurisdiction to do so.

Federal prosecutors have several billions in resources to pursue violations of federal law, and are effectively not capped in their pursuit of "justice".

Doubly so given that multiple states currently have extremely uneven enforcement of federal law around the sale of marijuana.

Federal prosecution of drug laws regarding marijuana are fairly even. The difference is that states which have legalized marijuana make it far easier for federal prosecutors to find defendants than states where it is illegal (because defendants in those states do not distribute their marijuana in the public eye).

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