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Jonathan James

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Re: Jonathan James

#101

Post by alan_cx »

ghshephard wrote: post #24
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>highly illegal This is the problem. It should be "illegal" but not "highly illegal" -- the penalties should be along the lines of trespass, e.g. 30 days in jail or a $1000 fine, not 30 years in prison and a million dollar fine. More than that, the crimes need to be defined with actual specificity. Read the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act sometime if you want to scare yourself. It's preposterously vague. How about we re…

Not to go too far off track here - but should I get a penalty for not locking my door at home?

Yes. If you get burgled and you insurance company discovers you didn't lock you home up, yeah, you will get a penalty.

Re: Jonathan James

#102

Post by alan_cx »

ck2 wrote: post #46

We cannot see into Aaron's thoughts of course but if I had to guess, maybe he thought he was going to be Bradley Manning-inged which might drive anyone over the edge. Stripped naked and thrown into a cell "for his protection" (he got a whopping 100 days off his 30 years to life sentence for that abuse btw, so that will teach the people that did that right?) Perhaps we should use this energy to help the living Bradley…

Yes, but spread the net wider. Manning isnt the only one.

Re: Jonathan James

#103

Post by pothibo »

rwmj wrote: post #29
doktrin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "who won a record 20-year sentence" I know this is common verbiage, but it's frankly sickening. Do they view their targets as people, or are they merely a collection of scalps?

Gonzalez stole real money, I'm sure causing many people a great deal of trouble and distress. He said in chat logs that he aimed to steal $15 million and retire. It's really not that much different from pickpocketing or bank robbery, except on a much larger scale, and I'm quite happy if pickpockets, bank robbers, insurance scammers, and other criminals get serious time. This is quite different from Aaron Swartz who w…

"Gonzalez stole real money, I'm sure causing many people a great deal of trouble and distress."

I don't think I'll ever agree with this. I have seen this argument brought up times and times again and every time I feel that we miss the point.

Stealing money is bad, yes. Does it deserve a similar amount of time as someone who committed a murder?

Also, nowadays, people who steal money are stealing money from businesses that are protected against those very thieves (Banks, insurances, big commerces). So basically, it's better morally to steal from a bank/insurance than it is to pickpocket since pickpocketing has a direct impact on a single person.

Don't you guys have enough people in jail already?

EDIT: corrected amount of time in comparison to murder.

Re: Jonathan James

#104

Post by zura »

rwmj wrote: post #29
doktrin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "who won a record 20-year sentence" I know this is common verbiage, but it's frankly sickening. Do they view their targets as people, or are they merely a collection of scalps?

Gonzalez stole real money, I'm sure causing many people a great deal of trouble and distress. He said in chat logs that he aimed to steal $15 million and retire. It's really not that much different from pickpocketing or bank robbery, except on a much larger scale, and I'm quite happy if pickpockets, bank robbers, insurance scammers, and other criminals get serious time. This is quite different from Aaron Swartz who w…

Yes, but even for the real money, I think it is too much.

For comparison, this guy[1] shot 77 people, but he was sentenced only "21 years and a minimum of 10 years" and he will spend this period in a luxury prison of Norway.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

Re: Jonathan James

#105

Post by zura »

rwmj wrote: post #63
afterburner wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pickpocketing, really? You want pickpocketing to get the same "serious time" as bank robbery?

If you were somehow able to pickpocket thousands of people en masse, aiming to make $15 million out of all that distress, then yes, I'd like you to go to prison.

Yes, but instead of 20 years, couple of months or a year could help with changing mind.

Re: Jonathan James

#106

Post by cookiecaper »

pothibo wrote: post #103
rwmj wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gonzalez stole real money, I'm sure causing many people a great deal of trouble and distress. He said in chat logs that he aimed to steal $15 million and retire. It's really not that much different from pickpocketing or bank robbery, except on a much larger scale, and I'm quite happy if pickpockets, bank robbers, insurance scammers, and other criminals get serious time. This is quite different from Aaron Swartz who w…

"Gonzalez stole real money, I'm sure causing many people a great deal of trouble and distress." I don't think I'll ever agree with this. I have seen this argument brought up times and times again and every time I feel that we miss the point. Stealing money is bad, yes. Does it deserve a similar amount of time as someone who committed a murder? Also, nowadays, people who steal money are stealing money from businesses…

Most people who murder get sentences of 30+ years, many get life and some get death.

I agree that 20 years is excessive for Gonzales, but it's not the same as (many) murderers.

Re: Jonathan James

#107

Post by jellyksong »

I'm not sure we should glorify Jonathan James or even compare him to Aaron Swartz. His "hacking" of the DoD was undeniably illegal, and his sentencing seemed appropriate for his actions. We will never know if he was innocent or not of the TJX case. It's tragic that he killed himself, but, at least to me, his actions seemed on the whole more malicious than Swartz's ever was.

Re: Jonathan James

#108

Post by cgag »

linuxhansl wrote: post #40
rwmj wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gonzalez stole real money, I'm sure causing many people a great deal of trouble and distress. He said in chat logs that he aimed to steal $15 million and retire. It's really not that much different from pickpocketing or bank robbery, except on a much larger scale, and I'm quite happy if pickpockets, bank robbers, insurance scammers, and other criminals get serious time. This is quite different from Aaron Swartz who w…

Punishment is unfortunately needed for deterrence. But 20 years? Does anybody here have any grasp about how long 20 years are in prison? Where I'm from the maximum sentence is 15 years in prison.

I've never really understood why people want such long prison sentences. Is that guy going to be any more reformed after 20 years than 5?

Re: Jonathan James

#109

Post by Evbn »

_delirium wrote: post #7
jeremymims wrote: post #4

Looks like Steve Heymann has a history of this: "The case was picked up by Assistant U.S. Attorney Steve Heymann in Boston, the cybercrime prosecutor who won a record 20-year prison stretch for TJX hacker Albert Gonzalez. Heymann indicted Aaron on 13 counts of wire fraud, computer intrusion and reckless damage. The case has been wending through pre-trial motions for 18 months, and was set for jury trial on April 1."…

Not a whole lot of information available about Heymann, but what little I can find doesn't make me like him more. Here's something that turned up from 1996, where he tried to get Harvard to authorize warrantless surveillance: Stephen Heymann, deputy chief of the criminal division in the U.S. attorney's office in Boston, wanted Harvard to put an electronic banner on its intranet telling users they were being monitored…

Someone please download it and repost.

Re: Jonathan James

#110

Post by Evbn »

rwmj wrote: post #29
doktrin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "who won a record 20-year sentence" I know this is common verbiage, but it's frankly sickening. Do they view their targets as people, or are they merely a collection of scalps?

Gonzalez stole real money, I'm sure causing many people a great deal of trouble and distress. He said in chat logs that he aimed to steal $15 million and retire. It's really not that much different from pickpocketing or bank robbery, except on a much larger scale, and I'm quite happy if pickpockets, bank robbers, insurance scammers, and other criminals get serious time. This is quite different from Aaron Swartz who w…

Aaron didn't have access, that is why he broke into the MIT physical network.
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