Prosecutor as bully • Hacker News Board

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#241

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 13, 2013, 4:09 AM UTC

rprasad wrote: post #187

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's far better to have a government of laws and not a government of men Who do you think decided to tell JSTOR to shove it and prosecute him anyway under a federal computer crimes act? All prosecution is political and white collar crimes doubly so. Men decide to be vindictive, men decide which laws, and the men who prosecute knowing it takes millions of dollars to successful defend from a false accusation from the…

All prosecution is political and white collar crimes doubly so. No, all laws are political. Enforcement of the law, especiallly at the federal level, is apolitical. White collar crimes are not special; indeed, white collar crimes are by far the worst types of crimes because they strike directly at the foundation of the system itself (i.e., trust). There's no politically neutral AI calling the shots. Exactly. Letting…

[deleted]

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#242

Post by saraid216 » Sun, Jan 13, 2013, 4:45 AM UTC

ceol wrote: post #117

temphn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naming and shaming Carmen M. Ortiz for destroying the life of a young man is exactly what is necessary. She brought 13 felony counts against him for downloading articles that should be freely available, after JSTOR itself had dropped the charges. Destroying her career and seeing her fired in disgrace will send a message to all other overzealous prosecutors, in the same way that she surely thought her prosecution of S…

I wasn't personally familiar with Aaron, but from what I've read of him, I really don't think he was the type of person who would want everyone to go on a witch hunt the day it's announced he's committed suicide. So how about you save your emotionally charged call for an internet brigade until everything has settled down, yes?

> So how about you save your emotionally charged call for an internet brigade until everything has settled down, yes?

Hey guys! You might be effective if you do this now, so don't do it! Wait for no one to care before you start trying!

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#243

Post by paulrademacher » Sun, Jan 13, 2013, 4:48 AM UTC

> unable to appeal openly to us for the financial help he needed to fund his defense, at least without risking the ire of a district court judge

Can someone explain this statement? Can a person not raise a defense fund from the public?

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#244

Post by paulrademacher » Sun, Jan 13, 2013, 4:57 AM UTC

Question for the legal experts: We've been reading potential jail time of 50 or 30 years, plus $millions+ in fines. Realistically, had he taken a plea bargain or gone to trial, what would he likely have wound up with?

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#245

Post by _delirium » Sun, Jan 13, 2013, 5:37 AM UTC

andrewtbham wrote: post #64

I think we should start lobbying for a bill that makes copyright infringement a civil matter, not criminal. The Aaron Swartz bill.

Unfortunately, that was the case for noncommercial infringement, but public sentiment went the other way and the law was amended in the wrong direction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NET_Act

In Swartz's case, though, it seems he wasn't being prosecuted for copyright infringement: he never actually released the JSTOR documents. Instead he was being charged with unauthorized access to a computer system, and miscellaneous other related things.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#246

Post by csense » Sun, Jan 13, 2013, 7:06 AM UTC

mscarborough wrote: post #129

csense wrote: post #108

Assuming he did it -- or he didn't but was going to be found guilty anyway -- wouldn't fifty years for this nonviolent crime, done in the Martin Luther King Jr. spirit of civil disobedience, by a person with (I assume) no prior criminal record, be Unconstitutional cruel and unusual punishment?

MLK Jr. did his jail/prison time and he didn't pussyfoot around his civil disobedience. All the love for aaronsw, but he wasn't ever sentenced and if what he was alleged to do was a civil disobedience act, it was hidden behind his lawyers.

Maybe aaronsw intended to, until he found that the rigors of the investigation and the length of the prison sentence were multiple orders of magnitude worse than he'd thought they would be.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#247

Post by strlen » Sun, Jan 13, 2013, 7:27 AM UTC

Daniel_Newby wrote: post #132

temphn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naming and shaming Carmen M. Ortiz for destroying the life of a young man is exactly what is necessary. She brought 13 felony counts against him for downloading articles that should be freely available, after JSTOR itself had dropped the charges. Destroying her career and seeing her fired in disgrace will send a message to all other overzealous prosecutors, in the same way that she surely thought her prosecution of S…

> Destroying her career and seeing her fired in disgrace will send a message to all other overzealous prosecutors, ... This is Timothy McVeigh thinking, and it makes you a loser just like it did to McVeigh. You can never kill or destroy enough people to defeat Washington, D.C. To win you have to think like Osama bin Laden: turn the system against itself. Wholesale, not retail. Scale up, not one off. TSA, not EFF.

> This is Timothy McVeigh thinking, and it makes you a loser just like it did to McVeigh. You can never kill or destroy enough people to defeat Washington, D.C.

What? McVeigh murdered innocent people. The parent is proposing investigating the prosecutor for breaching the mores and laws that govern her profession using the legal system already in place. These are not exactly equivalent.

I have no interest in defeating Washington, D.C. I have no desire to "win" if "winning" requires me thinking "like Osama Bin Ladin" (or do you mean not thinking? because I think he's dead, last time I checked).

There's no worse fear for a bureaucrat than to be hoisted by their own petard, to face a misconduct investigation, and possibly criminal and civil charges. A lot of harm can be prevented if her public service career is ended early on the count of what she has done to Aaron (and presumably others): I'd rather her career end as an associate in a think-tank (or whatever), rather than as the next Rudy Giuliani (who also started his career as a DA).

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#248

Post by noonespecial » Sun, Jan 13, 2013, 8:05 AM UTC

As citizens, there should be a way to collect enough signatures to pronounce the professional death penalty(1) on a prosecutor who fails adequately represent the wishes of the people. They do ostensibly represent the people, prosecuting those who harm the public. If they fail this duty and harm the public instead...

(1) Never be allowed to serve in the role of prosecutor at any level again.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#249

Post by ole_korrect » Sun, Jan 13, 2013, 8:35 AM UTC

vertr wrote: post #5

exit wrote: post #4

'prosecutor' is too abstract. specific names should be named.

I agree, who is this prosecutor? http://www.justice.gov/usao/ma/contact.html

Agreed.

I'd imagine he'd appreciate hearing from you directly:

Home:

23 Kenwin Rd Winchester, MA 01890-1309 (781) 729-4959 https://www.facebook.com/stephen.heymann [544593576]

Office:

1 Courthouse Way, Suite 9200 Boston, MA 02210 stephen.heymann@usdoj.gov (617) 748-3181 (ofc) (617) 748-3100 (ofc) (617) 748-3974 (ofc fax) (617) 223-4607 AMA01(SHEYMANN)

And surely his friends and family care deeply as well...

Carry on, Internet.

- O.K.

Re: Prosecutor as bully

#250

Post by strlen » Sun, Jan 13, 2013, 9:03 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #121

Man, if we could get this kind of outrage built up against over zealous prosecution when the defendant isn't a white techie, we might actually get some criminal justice reform in the U.S.

I think that's the point here: use Aaron's case as a starting point to highlight over zealous prosecutors. Techie-nerd community is also relatively wealthy and influential: getting the word out and actually having an impact will be feasible.