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Official Statement from the family and partner of Aaron Swartz

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Re: Official Statement from the family and partner of Aaron Swartz

#111

Post by rdl »

Evbn wrote: post #88
rdl wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully there's a successful civil suit against the Institute, with funds going to Givewell.

What is MIT's tort? Investigating a repeat hacker violating physical building and network security?

Yeah, in reality they probably don't have any. They referred a minor crime to an overzealous federal agency who had it in for the guy. To Godwin this thread, they would have reported Anne Frank for trespassing to the Nazis. Perfectly legal, but if they had full knowledge of what would result, perfectly immoral as well.

They will never see another dime or kind word from me, though.

Re: Official Statement from the family and partner of Aaron Swartz

#113

Post by genwin »

rdl wrote: post #72
genwin wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accused of a crime thought so horrific it warrants 30 years in prison, I doubt that. The US has grabbed people on the other side of the world for lesser charges.

This was prosecutorial overreach. It was probably not in their short list of major issues, and thus I don't think they would have devoted huge resources to it. Which makes this whole thing even sadder. It's entirely possible his (great) IP law firm could have gotten him off, or at least ended up with a brief or suspended sentence. Even though worst case he was facing 50 years, it would have almost certainly been far…

> It's entirely possible his (great) IP law firm could have gotten him off, or at least ended up with a brief or suspended sentence.

That is possible. But what life would he have then, with $1.5 million of debt? If not for my kids I'd probably jump off a cliff myself than work a lifetime paying that off.

Re: Official Statement from the family and partner of Aaron Swartz

#114

Post by jlgreco »

biot wrote: post #109
jlgreco wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike Jobs, Aaron was actually one of us.

It's rather presumptuous for you to speak on behalf of everybody. I would consider them both "one of us", though I prefer to leave "us" vs. "them" labels to religious, political, and sports nuts.

By "one of us" I mean a part of our community (Hacker news in particular, and the internet hacker/programmer community at large), and I am referring to his involvement in Y Combinator.

Re: Official Statement from the family and partner of Aaron Swartz

#115

Post by biot »

jlgreco wrote: post #114
biot wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rather presumptuous for you to speak on behalf of everybody. I would consider them both "one of us", though I prefer to leave "us" vs. "them" labels to religious, political, and sports nuts.

By "one of us" I mean a part of our community (Hacker news in particular, and the internet hacker/programmer community at large), and I am referring to his involvement in Y Combinator.

Thanks for clarifying; that makes sense now.

Re: Official Statement from the family and partner of Aaron Swartz

#116

Post by rdl »

genwin wrote: post #113
rdl wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was prosecutorial overreach. It was probably not in their short list of major issues, and thus I don't think they would have devoted huge resources to it. Which makes this whole thing even sadder. It's entirely possible his (great) IP law firm could have gotten him off, or at least ended up with a brief or suspended sentence. Even though worst case he was facing 50 years, it would have almost certainly been far…

> It's entirely possible his (great) IP law firm could have gotten him off, or at least ended up with a brief or suspended sentence. That is possible. But what life would he have then, with $1.5 million of debt? If not for my kids I'd probably jump off a cliff myself than work a lifetime paying that off.

I think he had some assets from Reddit, as well as some of the work being pro bono, and contributions.

Killing yourself over $1.5mm in debt is not rational. You can default on it and go bankrupt and be back to normal in 7-10 years. You can get most of it written off. You can do consulting for 5-10 years and live slightly frugally and probably pay enough of it off to have the rest written off. You can start 1/1000th of a kind-of-shitty photo sharing site. You can flee to China, start over, and no one will pursue you.

They basically don't expect you to put 100% of your income toward fines, back taxes, etc. even if it's to the Government (and hence can't be discharged in bankruptcy). In that case, you just live on 25-50k post-tax and either hide a bunch of cash income while making small payments, or find benefactors who cover most of your costs and work on free software or something.

We essentially ended debtors prisons a long time ago.

35 years in federal prison might actually be a case for killing yourself (although I'd just read a lot of books and be the hacker Mumia Abu-Jamal, and hopefully get out on appeal).

Re: Official Statement from the family and partner of Aaron Swartz

#117

Post by elviejo »

biot wrote: post #109
jlgreco wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike Jobs, Aaron was actually one of us.

It's rather presumptuous for you to speak on behalf of everybody. I would consider them both "one of us", though I prefer to leave "us" vs. "them" labels to religious, political, and sports nuts.

Aaron was part of HackerNews, he posted and answered and Reddit was a company in the first batch of YCombinator founded companies and Aaron was one of the partners.

In that sense he was "one of us"... the HackerNews community

Re: Official Statement from the family and partner of Aaron Swartz

#118

Post by ericd »

rdl wrote: post #116
genwin wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's entirely possible his (great) IP law firm could have gotten him off, or at least ended up with a brief or suspended sentence. That is possible. But what life would he have then, with $1.5 million of debt? If not for my kids I'd probably jump off a cliff myself than work a lifetime paying that off.

I think he had some assets from Reddit, as well as some of the work being pro bono, and contributions. Killing yourself over $1.5mm in debt is not rational. You can default on it and go bankrupt and be back to normal in 7-10 years. You can get most of it written off. You can do consulting for 5-10 years and live slightly frugally and probably pay enough of it off to have the rest written off. You can start 1/1000th o…

Based on what you've written, I think you'd handle getting charged with a crime a lot better than I would.

Re: Official Statement from the family and partner of Aaron Swartz

#119

Post by doktrin »

ghshephard wrote: post #24

I've been thinking about the family today, and what might have caused Aaron to make such a terrible decision. One thing that caught my attention, was Lessig's comment in his post: " ... Aaron Swartz be labeled a “felon.” For in the 18 months of negotiations, that was what he was not willing to accept, and so that was the reason he was facing a million dollar trial in April — his wealth bled dry, yet unable to appeal…

Yes. With all the information and POV accounts that have surfaced today, I can't help but wonder if I truly would have acted differently in his shoes.

The prospect of ruining your own family in a protracted legal battle with the DOJ is nothing short of a nightmare.

There but for the grace of God, as they say. This country can be a terrifying place, although I myself occasionally forget it.

Re: Official Statement from the family and partner of Aaron Swartz

#120

Post by rdl »

ericd wrote: post #118
rdl wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he had some assets from Reddit, as well as some of the work being pro bono, and contributions. Killing yourself over $1.5mm in debt is not rational. You can default on it and go bankrupt and be back to normal in 7-10 years. You can get most of it written off. You can do consulting for 5-10 years and live slightly frugally and probably pay enough of it off to have the rest written off. You can start 1/1000th o…

Based on what you've written, I think you'd handle getting charged with a crime a lot better than I would.

If it's a purely economic or "political" crime, I think it's a lot easier to deal with. I mean, even if you accept that Aaron did all these things and that they were crimes, there's nothing morally repugnant about it.

The worse thing is if you're accused of a morally repugnant crime. Say, rape, or child molestation, or maybe some kind of betrayal of trust (like embezzling), or even not a crime but something like snitching on a close friend over an immoral law and sending Anne Frank to the Nazis. Then, there's both all the moral scorn from other people and from yourself -- just the accusation is hurtful, even if you know at some level it's false.

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