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Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

petitions.whitehouse.gov

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Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#101

Post by Turing_Machine »

danso wrote: post #10

Some more context about the prosecutor: She was named "Bostonian of the Year" for her successful cases against mob bosses and drug companies: http://www.mainjustice.com/2012/01/03/massachusetts-u-s-atto... Out of the 94 U.S. DA offices, her office alone collected ~67% of the total criminal and civil fines in 2012, mostly owing to the successful prosecution of drug companies. Her success led to speculation that she wo…

"She is no stranger to being part of a disenfranchised group"

Got it. Being a member of a "disenfranchised group" and "fighting corporations" excuses anything.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#102

Post by Turing_Machine »

monochromatic wrote: post #71
jordanb wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I don't care if she spends her nights and weekends caring for orphans and war widows. She's a politician who treated Aaron Swartz as a pawn in the political game she is playing. No doubt she intended for her campaign for governor to describe her as a "staunch defender of intellectual property rights" who, as prosecutor, put a "dangerous hacker behind bars" for "breaking into MIT and stealing millions of doll…

treated Aaron Swartz as a pawn in the political game she is playing Well, maybe. It's also entirely possible that she was just doing her job, and didn't totally understand the technical aspects of what Swartz was accused of doing.

Prosecuting someone without understanding the crime in question is not "doing your job".

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#103

Post by Turing_Machine »

lutze wrote: post #85
jordanb wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I don't care if she spends her nights and weekends caring for orphans and war widows. She's a politician who treated Aaron Swartz as a pawn in the political game she is playing. No doubt she intended for her campaign for governor to describe her as a "staunch defender of intellectual property rights" who, as prosecutor, put a "dangerous hacker behind bars" for "breaking into MIT and stealing millions of doll…

I think you're missing the point vis a vis "fix the machine, not the person". The tactics described in the petition are ingrained in the US justice system. Getting rid of a single prosecutor isn't going to change a damn thing because the injustices are systemic, not the product of a vindictive individual. Like Aaron said, shouting at the gears isn't going to fix the machine.

"Getting rid of a single prosecutor isn't going to change a damn thing"

Pour encourager les autres.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#104

Post by [deleted] »

monochromatic wrote: post #71
jordanb wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I don't care if she spends her nights and weekends caring for orphans and war widows. She's a politician who treated Aaron Swartz as a pawn in the political game she is playing. No doubt she intended for her campaign for governor to describe her as a "staunch defender of intellectual property rights" who, as prosecutor, put a "dangerous hacker behind bars" for "breaking into MIT and stealing millions of doll…

treated Aaron Swartz as a pawn in the political game she is playing Well, maybe. It's also entirely possible that she was just doing her job, and didn't totally understand the technical aspects of what Swartz was accused of doing.

[deleted]

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#105

Post by Turing_Machine »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #58
jordanb wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ending her career would set a very clear precedent that other prosecutors would have no difficulty understanding. N'est pas?

Sure, but I don't know if it would move the copyright reform question along. Copyright is very broken in a number of ways but there is broad consensus in people I've talked to that it is especially broken with regards to public records and science research. In the best of all possible worlds Aaron would have been acquitted with a landmark decision that said "this use of copyright in rent seeking behavior on documents…

"Making people "afraid" to prosecute it is the wrong answer"

No, it isn't. Prosecutors need to be held responsible for their actions.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#106

Post by Turing_Machine »

jowiar wrote: post #76
w1ntermute wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the good she's done doesn't matter, because when you're a prosecutor, all it takes is one mistake and you've could have blood on your hands. Firing her would send a message to other prosecutors that mistakes will not be tolerated.

Which is a useless message to send. People make mistakes. Period. A system which is not robust to people making mistakes is disastrously broken.

And people are expected to pay when they make mistakes. Period.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#107

Post by Turing_Machine »

mangler wrote: post #47

Of course, I assume nobody wants Ms. Ortiz to spin into deep guilt-driven depression for doing what she believed was right. This kind of emotional blackmail is probably not helping anyone or anything, at least not this soon after the events when emotions are still looming high and, more importantly, nobody actually understands the exact circumstances of a person's... well... personal predicament that lead to certain…

Your evidence that she was doing "what she believed was right" rather than "what she believed would enhance her career" would be?

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#108

Post by hippee-lee »

monochromatic wrote: post #71
jordanb wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I don't care if she spends her nights and weekends caring for orphans and war widows. She's a politician who treated Aaron Swartz as a pawn in the political game she is playing. No doubt she intended for her campaign for governor to describe her as a "staunch defender of intellectual property rights" who, as prosecutor, put a "dangerous hacker behind bars" for "breaking into MIT and stealing millions of doll…

treated Aaron Swartz as a pawn in the political game she is playing Well, maybe. It's also entirely possible that she was just doing her job, and didn't totally understand the technical aspects of what Swartz was accused of doing.

Very entirely possible. However I have a hard time believing that someone smart enought to make it through law school and pass the bar is not be able to learn enough about technology and motivations behind the actions in this case.

As a tax payer I don't want a prosecutor who doesn't know who to go after or how far to go. From reading the thread(s) here and loosely following the case in the news I am not convinced that the money spent to prosecute this case was the best possible use of my tax dollars.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#109

Post by hippee-lee »

jowiar wrote: post #76
w1ntermute wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the good she's done doesn't matter, because when you're a prosecutor, all it takes is one mistake and you've could have blood on your hands. Firing her would send a message to other prosecutors that mistakes will not be tolerated.

Which is a useless message to send. People make mistakes. Period. A system which is not robust to people making mistakes is disastrously broken.

People make mistakes. Responsible people take responsibility for their mistakes.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#110

Post by matthewrobertso »

philwelch wrote: post #46

Where's the petition to require free publication and distribution of federally funded academic research? That was the point of that particular exercise in civil disobedience in the first place. What a disappointment--it's like firing a cop for putting Martin Luther King in jail without ever addressing racism.

No, it's like firing a US district attorney for deciding to put Martin Luther King in jail. And you can do more than one action.
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