Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

petitions.whitehouse.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 251 posts

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#81

Post by randallsquared »

jowiar wrote: post #76
w1ntermute wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the good she's done doesn't matter, because when you're a prosecutor, all it takes is one mistake and you've could have blood on your hands. Firing her would send a message to other prosecutors that mistakes will not be tolerated.

Which is a useless message to send. People make mistakes. Period. A system which is not robust to people making mistakes is disastrously broken.

Getting a prosecutor fired is orders of magnitude easier than meaningfully changing the system.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#82

Post by temphn »

danso wrote: post #10

Some more context about the prosecutor: She was named "Bostonian of the Year" for her successful cases against mob bosses and drug companies: http://www.mainjustice.com/2012/01/03/massachusetts-u-s-atto... Out of the 94 U.S. DA offices, her office alone collected ~67% of the total criminal and civil fines in 2012, mostly owing to the successful prosecution of drug companies. Her success led to speculation that she wo…

A young man is dead because Carmen M. Ortiz unambiguously railroaded him. Frankly the ignorance and tenor of her prosecution in this area makes me much less likely to believe that all those other people she fined and jailed were bad guys.

That is: in the one area we do know - computer science - we can see that she pursued trumped up charges. So maybe a forensic accountant would be able to explain that in her past rise to "Bostonian of the Year" she jailed some poor middle manager for making a mistake, or a legal aid guy could break down how she made some minority kid selling pot into a "mobster". Won't know till the Internet and the press does a thorough review:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5048632

Bottom line: she did not acknowledge any of Aaron's positive contributions when she decided to portray him as an evil hacker worthy of thirty five years in prison. Show her the same mercy she showed him by forcing her resignation. More, in fact, as I'm sure she'll be able to land on her feet as a high priced lobbyist. The RIAA/MPAA would love to have her.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#83

Post by ratsbane »

jivatmanx wrote: post #18
danso wrote: post #10

Some more context about the prosecutor: She was named "Bostonian of the Year" for her successful cases against mob bosses and drug companies: http://www.mainjustice.com/2012/01/03/massachusetts-u-s-atto... Out of the 94 U.S. DA offices, her office alone collected ~67% of the total criminal and civil fines in 2012, mostly owing to the successful prosecution of drug companies. Her success led to speculation that she wo…

It's clear that the severity of the charges were because the action was a political statement. That is why she wanted to "send a message" Had the same action been done by a non-political individual who simply did he "because he could" there would have been a quiet, minor settlement.

I agree. This makes it all the more important that we, as a community, "send a message" by calling out her actions as unacceptable and by peacefully petitioning for her removal from office.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#85

Post by lutze »

jordanb wrote: post #40
danso wrote: post #10

Some more context about the prosecutor: She was named "Bostonian of the Year" for her successful cases against mob bosses and drug companies: http://www.mainjustice.com/2012/01/03/massachusetts-u-s-atto... Out of the 94 U.S. DA offices, her office alone collected ~67% of the total criminal and civil fines in 2012, mostly owing to the successful prosecution of drug companies. Her success led to speculation that she wo…

Honestly I don't care if she spends her nights and weekends caring for orphans and war widows. She's a politician who treated Aaron Swartz as a pawn in the political game she is playing. No doubt she intended for her campaign for governor to describe her as a "staunch defender of intellectual property rights" who, as prosecutor, put a "dangerous hacker behind bars" for "breaking into MIT and stealing millions of doll…

I think you're missing the point vis a vis "fix the machine, not the person".

The tactics described in the petition are ingrained in the US justice system. Getting rid of a single prosecutor isn't going to change a damn thing because the injustices are systemic, not the product of a vindictive individual.

Like Aaron said, shouting at the gears isn't going to fix the machine.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#87

Post by pdonis »

lmkg wrote: post #26

While Cameron Ortiz' actions towards Aaron Swartz were unjust, I think that she is receiving an unduly large share of the ire, and as a result, several other agents and factors in this scenario are receiving an unduly small share. While I don't particularly want to defend her, I believe that a) justice is never served well by a lynch mob b) other actors are more deserving of blame , and by focusing on Ortiz we give t…

other actors are more deserving of blame, and by focusing on Ortiz we give them a get-out-of-jail-free card

I disagree. Calling for Ortiz to be removed in no way prevents us from also calling for whatever other actions we think are necessary.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#88

Post by pdonis »

lmkg wrote: post #26

While Cameron Ortiz' actions towards Aaron Swartz were unjust, I think that she is receiving an unduly large share of the ire, and as a result, several other agents and factors in this scenario are receiving an unduly small share. While I don't particularly want to defend her, I believe that a) justice is never served well by a lynch mob b) other actors are more deserving of blame , and by focusing on Ortiz we give t…

I expect her to prosecute based on the laws enacted by a fair democratic process, and not based on her personal views. To do otherwise, I would consider an abuse of power.

By this criterion, every prosecutor abuses their power. No prosecutor has the time or the resources to prosecute every violation of every law under their jurisdiction. They have to pick and choose, and that means they bear responsibility for how they pick and choose.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#89

Post by Steko »

jordanb wrote: post #40
danso wrote: post #10

Some more context about the prosecutor: She was named "Bostonian of the Year" for her successful cases against mob bosses and drug companies: http://www.mainjustice.com/2012/01/03/massachusetts-u-s-atto... Out of the 94 U.S. DA offices, her office alone collected ~67% of the total criminal and civil fines in 2012, mostly owing to the successful prosecution of drug companies. Her success led to speculation that she wo…

Honestly I don't care if she spends her nights and weekends caring for orphans and war widows. She's a politician who treated Aaron Swartz as a pawn in the political game she is playing. No doubt she intended for her campaign for governor to describe her as a "staunch defender of intellectual property rights" who, as prosecutor, put a "dangerous hacker behind bars" for "breaking into MIT and stealing millions of doll…

"We need to add a new rule to the political rulebook that she's playing by. Ending her career is necessary to send a lesson to every other prosecutor who sees a guy like Aaron the way a housecat sees a cornered rat."

Yes it's vitally important that there be a completely different and much weaker standard of justice applied to wealthy software developers then those other people.

Re: Petition the Whitehouse to remove Carmen Ortiz from office

#90

Post by grogenaut »

temphn wrote: post #82
danso wrote: post #10

Some more context about the prosecutor: She was named "Bostonian of the Year" for her successful cases against mob bosses and drug companies: http://www.mainjustice.com/2012/01/03/massachusetts-u-s-atto... Out of the 94 U.S. DA offices, her office alone collected ~67% of the total criminal and civil fines in 2012, mostly owing to the successful prosecution of drug companies. Her success led to speculation that she wo…

A young man is dead because Carmen M. Ortiz unambiguously railroaded him. Frankly the ignorance and tenor of her prosecution in this area makes me much less likely to believe that all those other people she fined and jailed were bad guys. That is: in the one area we do know - computer science - we can see that she pursued trumped up charges. So maybe a forensic accountant would be able to explain that in her past ris…

Actually a young man is dead because he killed himself.
Post reply on HN