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Aaron Swartz commits suicide

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Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#311

Post by icambron »

jlgreco wrote: post #143
BrokenPipe wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. The parallel to bullying is a good fit and the only reason it is not _really_ comparable is because of the imbalance of power. I would not be surprised to find myself and most others taking the same sort of action in a similar, unjust, situation. Would you rather die today or suffer more than you lived so far in prison for something like that ? Isn't just a matter of the law being unjust, I think th…

Exactly, I am right there with you. I don't understand the people saying the DOJ was just doing their jobs either. Are none of the people involved in that process given any sort of power of discretion at all? Any person in this case who was in a position to use some discretion but chose not to should be doing some serious reflection and consideration right now.

Of course they have that discretion -- prosecutors decline cases or seek reduced sentences all the time. Given the overbearing nature of our legal system, it would be impractical to do otherwise. This was just pointlessly maximalist DOJ behavior. On the other hand, shame on us for allowing these laws to exist at all, and creating opportunities for selective enforcement and massively unreasonable sentences.

I'd also like to add here that while maybe the DOJ had no way to know that Aaron would kill himself, their general pattern of ruining people's lives over minor offenses will, it seems obvious to me, result in some number of suicides. Heat up a pot of water and some percentage of the molecules evaporate. So while we can't hold the DOJ responsible for Aaron's actions, we can certainly hold them accountable for the aggregate misery they've created for so many people. And we should.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#312

Post by alaskamiller »

I remember most of the teachings from those days, back in the early 2000's. Before hacking, before startups, before entrepreneurs, before changing the world felt like a cool, common thing.

Before all of that, I remember this guy doing it, doing it well. And that inspired me to believe I can do it.

An artist's only passion is to create, until the day you die. In between you fight all sorts of battles that they don't warn you about. But the most important being that when you create, you carry with you a savagery of sorts, of making something new, of living in the edge.

And it's hard to survive. Nowadays we take for granted the Google style lunches and buslines, but being at the edge of something has always been trying to eke out in an hostile environment.

But this guy was there, all day, all night.

And that's special. Because it's an isolating experience.

I get the same suicidal thoughts that drift in and out too. It's partly chemical and it's just your personality. When you stand outside of the system long enough, watch long enough, suffer the heartbreak of seeing the wrongs enough, you may end up there too.

This was the glorious ending I wished for him.

May he truly rest now in peace.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#313

Post by twoodfin »

lloeki wrote: post #267
vor_ wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be ridiculous. Nobody is directly responsible for Swartz's suicide but Swartz. That's what suicide is.

> Nobody is directly responsible for Swartz's suicide but Swartz. Numerous courts around the world have put responsibility on third parties pressuring victims into suicide. Cult gurus pressuring people into (possibly mass) suicides, companies and managers for their employees suicides, and individuals pushing their own parents to commit suicide for will benefits.

Hence the word "directly".

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#314

Post by jfager »

beadmomsw wrote: post #252

Thank you all for your kind words and thoughts. Aaron has been depressed about his case/upcoming trial, but we had no idea what he was going through was this painful. Aaron was a terrific young man. He contributed a lot to the world in his short life and I regret the loss of all the things he had yet to accomplish. As you can imagine, we all miss him dearly. The grief is unfathomable. Aaron's mother

I am so sorry for your loss. Aaron was a true hero of mine, of the net, and of the world. We will all miss him greatly.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#315

Post by davidgerard »

aneth4 wrote: post #50
bpdthrow wrote: post #45

Aaron suffered from a brain disorder. He had documented periods of extreme withdrawn depression and others of mild manic productivity. Because of that brain disorder, perhaps because it was not attacked with the requisite treatment, he is dead. If you or a loved one are ever feeling suicidal, depressed, or are acting abnormally erratic, contact an expert. It's nothing to be ashamed about. It's just a lottery of genet…

Can you provide more information about which brain disorder?

The description, from Aaron's writings, sounds like untreated (and possibly undiagnosed) bipolar.

I may be seeing this through bipolar-coloured glasses - I don't have it myself, but I have loved ones with it and know very well what it looks like from outside. It's not normal ups and downs of mood, it can be really scary stuff.

The legal case probably didn't help, but it's quite possible there could have been no way to stop this short of someone present on depression watch.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#317

Post by icambron »

tomjen3 wrote: post #182
optimiz3 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be a perfect opportunity for a White House pardon.

Those are only available to the guilty.

A promise of a pardon would have done just as well, especially for federal prosecutors. The DOJ isn't going to make a big case out something their boss has promised to throw out. That said, the president being superinvolved in an ongoing case like that would be very strange.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#318

Post by davidgerard »

josh2600 wrote: post #22
veemjeem wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad, he just wanted to make the world a better place.

Read the statement above. If you're looking anywhere its probably towards the US Attorney's office, not JSTOR.

JSTOR's claims of innocence are simply not credible.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#319

Post by negamax »

doktrin wrote: post #296
zatara wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone is still in doubt about how the DOJ impacted Aaron's life, it may be interesting to have a look at his last published blog post ( http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/tdk , discussion on http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5047421 ). Aaron makes a parallel between the Batman movie and his own struggles, highlighting the corruption of the system and how the Joker was actually the only "sane" person in an insane wor…

> "Thus Master Wayne is left without solutions. Out of options, it’s no wonder the series ends with his staged suicide." Haunting. edit : It's an insightful piece of writing purely in its own right, as are the rest of his works that I have come across.

I read the full post and came back to post this exact sentence as a reply.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#320

Post by Radim »

jacques_chester wrote: post #258
jacquesm wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you can see I'm not a firm believer in the 'this is my job so I do what I'm told' concept. Everybody - including prosecutors - gets to decide what they do for themselves. If your job is so repugnant that you go after good people you have to question your own morality. Just following orders isn't good enough for me.

I doubt they were "just following orders". Nobody selects into public legal work for the money. They would have been doing what they think is the right thing to do : prosecute suspects aggressively. That you have a different criteria for what cases to prosecute doesn't make them evil.

    That you have a different criteria for what cases to prosecute doesn't make them evil.
Oh, but it does -- it makes them morally questionable in -- at least -- jacquesm's eyes (note, he didn't use the term "evil").

How else would you decide that someone's actions are morally dubious, other than using your own moral criteria? By consulting a lawyer? Running a popular vote?

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