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Aaron Swartz commits suicide

tech.mit.edu

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Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#271

Post by jfoster »

philwelch wrote: post #111
monsterix wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we not know who exactly (their faces/names etc.) were the people working in the "US Attorney Office" bent to indict him? It's easy for people to term it was not JSTOR, it was the Attorney Office but ultimately these things happen only because people forget how to treat other people properly.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. While I'll agree it was overzealous to make a federal case out of this, you can't blame federal prosecutors for doing their fucking jobs just because someone kills themselves. Many people have survived federal prosecution without dying or killing themselves. I'm shocked and horrified by this news too. It's awful that Aaron died. But it's foolish to blame anybody but him for h…

Prosecutors could focus on trying to imprison some real criminals rather than bullying someone who is making positive contributions to society for doing something relatively harmless.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#272

Post by jacquesm »

jacques_chester wrote: post #258
jacquesm wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you can see I'm not a firm believer in the 'this is my job so I do what I'm told' concept. Everybody - including prosecutors - gets to decide what they do for themselves. If your job is so repugnant that you go after good people you have to question your own morality. Just following orders isn't good enough for me.

I doubt they were "just following orders". Nobody selects into public legal work for the money. They would have been doing what they think is the right thing to do : prosecute suspects aggressively. That you have a different criteria for what cases to prosecute doesn't make them evil.

> That you have a different criteria for what cases to prosecute doesn't make them evil.

You're about 1/10th of a mm away from Godwinning this thread so I'll let it lie, it isn't worth it to me to continue this line.

Let's just agree to disagree. You're a good man and we simply will not see eye to eye on this one.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#274

Post by jacques_chester »

madaxe wrote: post #263
jacques_chester wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, I remember this. I thought the way you do. I don't need the pills. Depression has taught me deep this and profound that. Well let me tell you something. It's bullshit. That there might be a difference between 'objective' and 'subjective' happiness is triply-silly Cartesian dualist bullshit. You are absolutely embedded in the world, your happiness is not an abstract value that floats around on its own. And you…

As odd as it sounds, I'm happy with the status quo. Frequently miserable, but content with that misery, as I've learned to use it productively. My madness is both my undoing, and my doing. I would not have quit a highly paid job to strike out on my own and grow a successful business, were I not terminally malcontent. I would not strive as I do to improve both my lot and that of others, were it not for the fact that I…

Thanks.

I can definitely relate to some of this. Depression so profoundly altered the course of my life that I basically can't imagine what would have happened without it. Some of those consequences are really good and they make me happy.

I wish you every good fortune.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#275

Post by zatara »

jacquesm wrote: post #159

Man this so sucks. If you hit someone with enough felony counts sooner or later something can snap. This in response to those that claim the DOJ didn't have anything to do with Aaron killing himself. For some people the mere fact of being suspected of a crime they didn't commit is enough to push them over the edge. When you're placed in a holding cell the police will remove your laces from your boots so you don't han…

If anyone is still in doubt about how the DOJ impacted Aaron's life, it may be interesting to have a look at his last published blog post (http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/tdk, discussion on http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5047421).

Aaron makes a parallel between the Batman movie and his own struggles, highlighting the corruption of the system and how the Joker was actually the only "sane" person in an insane world. Sadly, he decided to pursue the same path as Heath Ledger.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#276

Post by rdl »

The other fucked up thing about this is that if he'd done this at Stanford, Berkeley, or anywhere else in the 9th Circuit (which is the best circuit!), or the 4th circuit, he wouldn't have been charged under CFAA. It's only the backward backwaters of the 5th, 7th, and 11th who would charge under CFAA. He was in the 1st, which hadn't yet ruled. SCOTUS would have been very likely to side with the 9th, since the 9th is the best in general, and was correct in this case.

So, yet another reason to be angry -- this case was perfect for removing ToS violations from CFAA.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#277

Post by marvin »

corporalagumbo wrote: post #224
jacques_chester wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, I remember this. I thought the way you do. I don't need the pills. Depression has taught me deep this and profound that. Well let me tell you something. It's bullshit. That there might be a difference between 'objective' and 'subjective' happiness is triply-silly Cartesian dualist bullshit. You are absolutely embedded in the world, your happiness is not an abstract value that floats around on its own. And you…

Okay, now you are just embarrassing yourself.

That's a very mean thing to say and not at all appropriate in this thread.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#278

Post by jacques_chester »

jacquesm wrote: post #272
jacques_chester wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt they were "just following orders". Nobody selects into public legal work for the money. They would have been doing what they think is the right thing to do : prosecute suspects aggressively. That you have a different criteria for what cases to prosecute doesn't make them evil.

> That you have a different criteria for what cases to prosecute doesn't make them evil. You're about 1/10th of a mm away from Godwinning this thread so I'll let it lie, it isn't worth it to me to continue this line. Let's just agree to disagree. You're a good man and we simply will not see eye to eye on this one.

I don't think we will.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#279

Post by pfortuny »

pretoriusB wrote: post #241
icelancer wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. The idea that all suicides can be prevented "if only he would have gotten help" is such a trite and simple answer to a complex question. Other comments like "What a waste" and "This didn't need to happen" are borderline insulting. Whether someone realizes it or not, those are incredibly disrespectful comments.

> I have no illusion that therapy is magically going to stop all suicides. I think the very existence of "professional therapy" is a factor in FAVOR of depression and suicide. It means that as a society we have compartmentalised social life, so that the help one previously expected from his family/friends (and ultimately: from the way he can structure his life) is now to be had from paid professionals (or tacky volun…

Oh, no you do not understand at all. Depression cannot be dealt with just with an 'ordinary and structured life': it is an illness. It has existed always.

The fact that there are specialists means that today, we have accepted is as what it its: a disease whose symptoms, professionals can, at least, try to decrease or even eliminate.

Do not mistake 'tiredness', 'a season of bad temper', 'the normal stress during a crisis' with a real permanent disorder. Because you may make more harm than good.

Really.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#280

Post by lhnz »

tricolon wrote: post #219

I never met Aaron Swartz but always wanted to. His work has had a profound impact on my life. His blog was thought-provoking. http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/ His work on the RSS 1.0 Specification enabled richer, more efficient information consumption. http://web.resource.org/rss/1.0/spec His work on Markdown enabled intuitive, unobtrusive formatting and structuring of information in plaintext and conversion to HTML. h…

.

This guy was definitely making a positive impact in the world.

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