Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Aaron Swartz commits suicide

tech.mit.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 583 posts

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#261

Post by jfoster »

wheels wrote: post #240
jacquesm wrote: post #159

Man this so sucks. If you hit someone with enough felony counts sooner or later something can snap. This in response to those that claim the DOJ didn't have anything to do with Aaron killing himself. For some people the mere fact of being suspected of a crime they didn't commit is enough to push them over the edge. When you're placed in a holding cell the police will remove your laces from your boots so you don't han…

It really rubs me the wrong way when something like this happens and folks jump to conclusions as you have here. You didn't know this person. For all we know he could have not given two shits about the whole legal process and this is linked to family or relationship problems or long term general depression.

Even if the assumption were wrong in this particular case, it is a worthwhile discussion to have. Intelligent people doing something relatively harmless being threatened with the possibility of decades in prison means something is very wrong.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#263

Post by madaxe »

jacques_chester wrote: post #167
madaxe wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I value my freedom and clarity of mind far more than I do some subjective "happiness", induced by drugs or lengthy stays in facilities, as is the normal treatment for depressive disorders in the UK. The system is not there to help, it's a kafkaesque self-sustaining bureaucracy. I do agree that suicidal thoughts aren't altogether healthy, but I'd also argue that blithely wandering through life without the merest shred…

Ah yes, I remember this. I thought the way you do. I don't need the pills. Depression has taught me deep this and profound that. Well let me tell you something. It's bullshit. That there might be a difference between 'objective' and 'subjective' happiness is triply-silly Cartesian dualist bullshit. You are absolutely embedded in the world, your happiness is not an abstract value that floats around on its own. And you…

As odd as it sounds, I'm happy with the status quo. Frequently miserable, but content with that misery, as I've learned to use it productively.

My madness is both my undoing, and my doing. I would not have quit a highly paid job to strike out on my own and grow a successful business, were I not terminally malcontent. I would not strive as I do to improve both my lot and that of others, were it not for the fact that I always have a gnawing sense of "this could be better".

Either way, don't worry for my sake - while I may ideate suicide, I also ideate being an old man with crazy eyebrows. I don't think I'd class myself as clinically depressed, rather overly empathic and terminally frustrated at the human condition.

Glad you found the help you needed, and that it works for you.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#264

Post by jacques_chester »

corporalagumbo wrote: post #244
jacques_chester wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between unhappiness and depression.

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. I fail to see the relevance. The real issue here I would say is that you seem to have worked yourself up into a bit of a soul-saving frenzy, but your efforts are misplaced and frankly not appreciated. You seem not to realise that Hackernews is by and large a community of smart, stable, motivated and successful people, rather than a casualty ward for self-imploding depressives. I wou…

> The real issue here I would say is that you seem to have worked yourself up into a bit of a soul-saving frenzy,

It's graceless of me. Oh noes, I might seem like a wanker who wants to help people.

> but your efforts are misplaced and frankly not appreciated.

By you.

> I would suggest you shift your efforts to a forum where people are actually starkly discussing hopelessness and self-destruction, rather than just briefly mentioning completely normal moments of weakness, and might even appreciate your help.

Honestly?

I'm not strong enough to do that. I'm just not. Soul-saving frenzies are as good as it gets for me.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#265

Post by jlgreco »

aneth4 wrote: post #218
BrokenPipe wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. The parallel to bullying is a good fit and the only reason it is not _really_ comparable is because of the imbalance of power. I would not be surprised to find myself and most others taking the same sort of action in a similar, unjust, situation. Would you rather die today or suffer more than you lived so far in prison for something like that ? Isn't just a matter of the law being unjust, I think th…

This is so absurd. While you may disagree with the punishment sought and the law, the government is enforcing the law, as written at the time the crime was committed. They guy actively broke many laws over a long period of time. The government is neither acting without reason nor intimidating someone for lawful behavior. Bullies don't enforce proscribed consequences based on written law. Bullies don't use courts with…

> They guy actively broke many laws over a long period of time. The government is neither acting without reason nor intimidating someone for lawful behavior.

I am arguing a massively disproportionate response occurred. Not that he was innocent, or that he deserved no punishment at all.

> Comparing this to beating a child? Seriously?

Decades of prison and 13 felony charges were in play. A man is dead. All for what? A little trespassing, a fake email, and a bunch of downloads? It is going to take more than your mock shock to convince me the comparison is anything other than generous. I am holding back here.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#266

Post by jacques_chester »

alan_cx wrote: post #245
rohamg wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is right. I'm shocked at the "suicide apologists" in this thread.

I'm shocked at "life bullies". Which lets face it is a Christian rule, and not applicable to all people. I would like to die right now. I'm just too cowardly. There is no simple switch to do it quickly and painlessly. No way to stop others being upset. No way to stop others discovering something that may scar them. I do not wish to mess up others. Why? I simply do not belong. I don't understand the human race at all,…

I didn't notice this "put thinkers to sleep" side-effect you're talking about.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#267

Post by lloeki »

vor_ wrote: post #216
option_greek wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no need to speculate. The DOJ bought by corporate interests is directly responsible for his suicide. They are more worried about protecting corporate interests than worrying about the spirit of law.

Don't be ridiculous. Nobody is directly responsible for Swartz's suicide but Swartz. That's what suicide is.

> Nobody is directly responsible for Swartz's suicide but Swartz.

Numerous courts around the world have put responsibility on third parties pressuring victims into suicide. Cult gurus pressuring people into (possibly mass) suicides, companies and managers for their employees suicides, and individuals pushing their own parents to commit suicide for will benefits.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#268

Post by SquareWheel »

argumentum wrote: post #259
SquareWheel wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but merging with a company doesn't make you a cofounder of that company. You were not there when it was founded, thus it's not an applicable label. I'm just asking for a title correction, not trying to slander the guy.

Not the place for this argument.

Do quit it with the high and mighty attitude. I've made it very clear I'm not attempting to slander anybody, just clearing up a misconception. When you allow misinformation it will spread, and that shouldn't be acceptable.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#269

Post by rdl »

jacquesm wrote: post #207
jacques_chester wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've confused the roles of judges and a prosecutors. They're not the same.

I took these to be part of the DOJ: "The criminal investigation and today’s indictment of Mr. Swartz has been directed by the United States Attorney’s Office. It was the government’s decision whether to prosecute, not JSTOR’s. As noted previously, our interest was in securing the content. Once this was achieved, we had no interest in this becoming an ongoing legal matter." So it's not as if anybody outside the govern…

Yes, it was Carmen M. Ortiz.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/ma/meetattorney.html

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#270

Post by rdl »

monsterix wrote: post #44
Claudus wrote: post #16

Here's the JSTOR Statement related to the downloading incident: http://about.jstor.org/news/jstor-statement-misuse-incident-... What Happened Last fall and winter, JSTOR experienced a significant misuse of our database. A substantial portion of our publisher partners’ content was downloaded in an unauthorized fashion using the network at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, one of our participating institutions…

Can we not know who exactly (their faces/names etc.) were the people working in the "US Attorney Office" bent to indict him? It's easy for people to term it was not JSTOR, it was the Attorney Office but ultimately these things happen only because people forget how to treat other people properly.

Carmen M. Ortiz, US Attorney

http://www.justice.gov/usao/ma/meetattorney.html

Post reply on HN