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Aaron Swartz commits suicide

tech.mit.edu

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Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#141

Post by paraschopra »

It's easy to deride suicide but fact of the matter is that it is the final but a very powerful option we have at our disposal. Instead of saying that a particular person should not have committed suicide, our hope should be that if a suicide happens, it is well thought through and is not done in haste. If a particular person decides that decades of painful life is much worse than simply ending the existence, who are we to question such a personal decision?

Of course, if everything was alright, I would have loved to see Aaron existing in this world for many more years and do wonderful things but not knowing what led him to this step and how he judged the current/future life for himself. Simply commenting that he should not have committed suicide is being insensitive to a person who has already done so much great work for humanity.

Life is not always better than no life. Context matters. A lot.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#142

Post by alexqgb »

Meanwhile, the guys who wiped out literally trillions of dollars of wealth by cratered the global economy in an orgy of greed, fraud, and reckless disregard for everything but their own inflated bonuses couldn't get arrested if they tired.

There are a lot of things wrong with this situation, but the egregiously misaligned priorities of the US Attorneys are near the top of the list.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#143

Post by jlgreco »

BrokenPipe wrote: post #133
jlgreco wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, this isn't really comparable to bullying, the imbalance of power is much more extreme. It is comparable to an adult beating a child for using a profane word. A completely mindbogglingly disproportionate response; convicted rapists get less time on average than what he was looking at. JSTOR didn't want him pursued like he was, but the justice department was trying to nail him to the wall anyway. They wan…

I agree with you. The parallel to bullying is a good fit and the only reason it is not _really_ comparable is because of the imbalance of power. I would not be surprised to find myself and most others taking the same sort of action in a similar, unjust, situation. Would you rather die today or suffer more than you lived so far in prison for something like that ? Isn't just a matter of the law being unjust, I think th…

Exactly, I am right there with you.

I don't understand the people saying the DOJ was just doing their jobs either. Are none of the people involved in that process given any sort of power of discretion at all? Any person in this case who was in a position to use some discretion but chose not to should be doing some serious reflection and consideration right now.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#144

Post by madaxe »

aneth4 wrote: post #49
alrs wrote: post #7

Fuck this country. EDIT: The guy was facing 13 felony counts for downloading academic articles.

Understandable emotion, but the country did not kill him. He did that. You can disagree with the laws of the land, protest them, even violate them in protest assuming you are willing to pay the consequences. You can blame the country, its politicians, or its voters for having bad laws. You can't blame those entities for this suicide. That was his choice, and it's unfortunate he will not be around to make his case.

Yeah, Turing was a total loser, right?

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#145

Post by jspthrowaway2 »

jacques_chester wrote: post #135
madaxe wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perfectly possible to think about it but never act. I don't think there's been a day in my life in which I haven't contemplated the ramifications of offing myself. Each and every time, I reach the same conclusion - it would be pointless. Null isn't a value, so I'd rather strive for happiness, even if my mood usually lurks around -1.

I don't mean to seem rude, but please, seek help. This doesn't sound like a healthy way to think and feel.

He has a point, though. It's pretty conservative to say "get help" for every thought about suicide. I think there's a difference between thinking about doing it or, say, wondering what death is like or whether you'd have the stones to go through with it. Honestly, I wonder what death is like a lot.

That being said, I tend to agree with you to be more conservative, but I've had similar thoughts as the guy you're replying to and know without a doubt that I'd never kill myself. Of course, there's probably a psychological argument that me knowing that is up for debate.

(Don't take this as displeasure with your efforts in this thread: thank you.)

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#146

Post by madaxe »

puppetsock wrote: post #52
pbateman wrote: post #26

A tragedy that this caring young man has taken his own life. My heart goes out to his family. This feels a bit inappropriate but at the moment I hope that some members of the US Attorney's Office are wracked by guilt.

You're being a bit unfair. It's equally inappropriate for me to speculate about his motives, but I recall there being an undercurrent of melancholia in Aaron's writings even pre-indictment.

In which case the prosecution should have realised he was a suicide risk and acted appropriately. They seemingly did not.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#147

Post by madaxe »

jlgreco wrote: post #98
krzyk wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, do you think that it's better to walk on your toes when you are walking pass anyone, just because they might have depression and you might trigger them to commit suicide? How anyone can know that if you accuse someone of committing a crime, that someone will get so depressed that he will kill himself? Do you propose to just get rid of courts? What's this attitude on HN to praise suiciders?

What the fuck is wrong with you? Who the hell is praising suicide?

Don't feed the troll. Oh. Catholic. Gotcha.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#148

Post by doktrin »

monsterix wrote: post #44
Claudus wrote: post #16

Here's the JSTOR Statement related to the downloading incident: http://about.jstor.org/news/jstor-statement-misuse-incident-... What Happened Last fall and winter, JSTOR experienced a significant misuse of our database. A substantial portion of our publisher partners’ content was downloaded in an unauthorized fashion using the network at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, one of our participating institutions…

Can we not know who exactly (their faces/names etc.) were the people working in the "US Attorney Office" bent to indict him? It's easy for people to term it was not JSTOR, it was the Attorney Office but ultimately these things happen only because people forget how to treat other people properly.

Who are you referring to, exactly?

The federal prosecutors? The division head? The attorney general?

How do you plan to identify the parties bent on indicting him? You certainly can't assume the prosecutors took this on as some sort of personal crusade.

Assuming you can identify the individuals most responsible, what do you plan to do to punish them for their actions? The implication of getting "names and faces" out in the public domain is potentially serious.

I've seen this sentiment echoed variously up and down this thread, and it is scary. Inaction is not the appropriate response here, but neither is the public stoning you appear to be proposing.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#150

Post by rdl »

petercooper wrote: post #138
philwelch wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. While I'll agree it was overzealous to make a federal case out of this, you can't blame federal prosecutors for doing their fucking jobs just because someone kills themselves. Many people have survived federal prosecution without dying or killing themselves. I'm shocked and horrified by this news too. It's awful that Aaron died. But it's foolish to blame anybody but him for h…

I mostly agree. But a potential 35 year prison sentence hanging over people for a white collar crime is sure to send a percentage of them over the edge. With a more realistic and efficient judicial system, people would be under a lot less unnecessary stress and there'd be fewer straws to break the proverbial camels' backs. Being threatened with 35 years in prison for what he did is indicative of a sick judicial syste…

I wouldn't even call it a 'white collar crime'. It was downloading some scientific papers, which the site didn't really care about. White collar crime is like Bernie Madoff.
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