Aaron Swartz commits suicide • Hacker News Board

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#131

Post by sks » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 9:11 AM UTC

krzyk wrote: post #105

ucee054 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah because it's saner to spend 35 years in a federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison.

If you break a law you have to pay for this. Don't you have lawyers there to protect the innocent?

As a society we do agree to follow the law and punish those who break them. But remember that the law of the land is not some God given set of laws. Several people broke segregation laws during the civil rights movement and in my view they should not have paid up (I think you may also agree with this). Turing paid up because he broke the law but now I guess there is almost unanimous consent that him paying up was not the right outcome. So paying up for breaking the law is not as black and white as it sometimes seems. Lets reserve our judgements for some time.

Edit : Also as Udo points out lets stop this line of argument for a bit. Some members of the community either knew Aaron or were affected by his work, lets not subject them to this argument right now.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#132

Post by madaxe » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 9:13 AM UTC

jacques_chester wrote: post #117

gfunk911 wrote: post #110

I've thought of suicide. Not "seriously," but it's crossed my mind. Sometimes life just seems so hard. My reaction to this is that he was a brilliant guy, and it was such a waste. Such a pointless waste. It makes the idea of giving up myself seem so wrong. Rest in Peace Aaron. I'm sorry it had to end this way.

> I've thought of suicide. Not "seriously," but it's crossed my mind. If it happens again, get help. I'm quite serious.

Perfectly possible to think about it but never act. I don't think there's been a day in my life in which I haven't contemplated the ramifications of offing myself.

Each and every time, I reach the same conclusion - it would be pointless. Null isn't a value, so I'd rather strive for happiness, even if my mood usually lurks around -1.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#133

Post by BrokenPipe » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 9:13 AM UTC

jlgreco wrote: post #93

achompas wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I don't want to make this point here, but comparing this to bullying is ridiculous. There's a difference between a child who is victimized while growing socially and emotionally and an adult man who allegedly broke the law knowingly.

You're right, this isn't really comparable to bullying, the imbalance of power is much more extreme. It is comparable to an adult beating a child for using a profane word. A completely mindbogglingly disproportionate response; convicted rapists get less time on average than what he was looking at. JSTOR didn't want him pursued like he was, but the justice department was trying to nail him to the wall anyway. They wan…

I agree with you. The parallel to bullying is a good fit and the only reason it is not _really_ comparable is because of the imbalance of power. I would not be surprised to find myself and most others taking the same sort of action in a similar, unjust, situation. Would you rather die today or suffer more than you lived so far in prison for something like that ? Isn't just a matter of the law being unjust, I think this is pure evil and wrong interpretation of a wrong law. The law needs changing and the people pursing this case need changing too.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#134

Post by makomk » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 9:14 AM UTC

natrius wrote: post #125

rdtsc wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowing the faces and names deciding to spend our tax money on trying to shove in jail for decades someone who downloaded scientific papers, should be in the interest of every citizen, shouldn't it?

Congress decides the range of punishments for breaking laws, not the Department of Justice. Congress is elected by the people. Instead of trying to identify individuals to indict, consider the role of 300 million Americans who implicitly backed those decisions. Or you could just take a step back to pause and lament the toll of depression.

The Department of Justice decides which people get pursued through the courts and which just get ignored. Its decisions have always been aimed at protecting the wealthy and influential no matter what.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#135

Post by jacques_chester » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 9:15 AM UTC

madaxe wrote: post #132

jacques_chester wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've thought of suicide. Not "seriously," but it's crossed my mind. If it happens again, get help. I'm quite serious.

Perfectly possible to think about it but never act. I don't think there's been a day in my life in which I haven't contemplated the ramifications of offing myself. Each and every time, I reach the same conclusion - it would be pointless. Null isn't a value, so I'd rather strive for happiness, even if my mood usually lurks around -1.

I don't mean to seem rude, but please, seek help. This doesn't sound like a healthy way to think and feel.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#136

Post by madaxe » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 9:16 AM UTC

natrius wrote: post #104

monsterix wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we not know who exactly (their faces/names etc.) were the people working in the "US Attorney Office" bent to indict him? It's easy for people to term it was not JSTOR, it was the Attorney Office but ultimately these things happen only because people forget how to treat other people properly.

This question seems to imply that his death is the DOJ's fault, which I find preposterous.

You do live in the land Kafka could only have lurid nightmares about, though.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#137

Post by shrikant » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 9:16 AM UTC

hihuhiahei wrote: post #90

Is there a proof that it's a suicide? He dies yesterday, and annouced as `suicide` immediately?

Did you even read the posted link, or are you just responding to the headline?

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#138

Post by petercooper » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 9:18 AM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #111

monsterix wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we not know who exactly (their faces/names etc.) were the people working in the "US Attorney Office" bent to indict him? It's easy for people to term it was not JSTOR, it was the Attorney Office but ultimately these things happen only because people forget how to treat other people properly.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. While I'll agree it was overzealous to make a federal case out of this, you can't blame federal prosecutors for doing their fucking jobs just because someone kills themselves. Many people have survived federal prosecution without dying or killing themselves. I'm shocked and horrified by this news too. It's awful that Aaron died. But it's foolish to blame anybody but him for h…

I mostly agree. But a potential 35 year prison sentence hanging over people for a white collar crime is sure to send a percentage of them over the edge.

With a more realistic and efficient judicial system, people would be under a lot less unnecessary stress and there'd be fewer straws to break the proverbial camels' backs. Being threatened with 35 years in prison for what he did is indicative of a sick judicial system.

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#139

Post by faramarz » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 9:18 AM UTC

I can't stop reading his writings. He was a talented writer, amongst other things. I really feel the connection even though I never met him.

My condolences to his family and the entire community. :(

Re: Aaron Swartz commits suicide

#140

Post by Pyrrhuloxia » Sat, Jan 12, 2013, 9:18 AM UTC

jacques_chester wrote: post #123

benesch wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he meant that there's a stigma associated with depression—that many of us unfortunately view depression as the "fault" of depressed individuals, as if it were some sort of choice they make. No one would ever blame you for a [genetic] heart disorder. In the same way, no one would ever blame you for a [genetic] brain disorder. Phrasing it as such removes some of the stigma.

I used to use the analogy of type I diabetes, but now people are mixing it up with type II. I think that the way to beat the stigma is talk openly about it.

> I think that the way to beat the stigma is talk openly about it.

Easier to say than to do. If you're depressed / bipolar / schizophrenic and talk about it openly it can make people very uncomfortable, which can result in their not wanting to be around you, which can result in further isolation for you, which can make your situation worse.