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Safari is released to the world

donmelton.com

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Re: Safari is released to the world

#91

Post by ZeroGravitas »

sarvinc wrote: post #90
podperson wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple had been dependent on Microsoft and Netscape for good browser options. Microsoft released IE5.5 for Mac which was neither IE5 nor IE6 compatible, and then nothing. Netscape gradually turned into a gigantic steaming pile of crap. I might add that Chimera -> Camino was the beacon of hope before Safari came out, and once it got going on Mac OS X, other folks got so excited they demanded a cross-platform version wh…

"I might add that Chimera -> Camino was the beacon of hope before Safari came out, and once it got going on Mac OS X, other folks got so excited they demanded a cross-platform version which eventually became Firefox." I'd never heard this and I can't seem to find any references to it. Would you mind pointing me in the right direction?

As mentioned in the story Dave Hyatt was the main guy behind Chimera, (a streamlined platform native browser using the gecko renderer but ditching mail, composer etc. from Mozilla Suite) and with Blake Ross, behind Phoenix, which became Firefox (a streamlined platform native browser using the gecko renderer but ditching mail, composer etc. from the Mozilla Suite).

Technically, they were both faking the platform native element to some degree, but they were at least trying to fit in with their respective target platform(s).

Re: Safari is released to the world

#93

Post by sarvinc »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #91
sarvinc wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I might add that Chimera -> Camino was the beacon of hope before Safari came out, and once it got going on Mac OS X, other folks got so excited they demanded a cross-platform version which eventually became Firefox." I'd never heard this and I can't seem to find any references to it. Would you mind pointing me in the right direction?

As mentioned in the story Dave Hyatt was the main guy behind Chimera, (a streamlined platform native browser using the gecko renderer but ditching mail, composer etc. from Mozilla Suite) and with Blake Ross, behind Phoenix, which became Firefox (a streamlined platform native browser using the gecko renderer but ditching mail, composer etc. from the Mozilla Suite). Technically, they were both faking the platform nativ…

Yeah, I just found it in the story! I was an early user of Pheonix but never bothered to learn the history behind the browser.

Re: Safari is released to the world

#94

Post by binarycrusader »

dave1010uk wrote: post #32

I'd like to hear about how WebKit went mobile for the iPhone. Eg if Apple worked with Nokia and their port of WebKit to Symbian, or started their own port from scratch.

WebKit was open sourced roughly a week (June 7, 2005) before Nokia announced the port to their phone (June 13, 2005). That means that Nokia was able to do the port in less than a week with (presumably) a few competent developers.

As the other person said, you must be kidding if you think Apple worked with Nokia.

Did you read any of the posts that have been flying by?

WebKit was a project shrouded in almost total secrecy until it's announcement as Safari and was clearly done at Apple and based on KTHML/KJS.

Not only that, what would make the mobile version "special" (besides dealing with touch input and screen resolution)? Don't you remember Jobs' comments about it being the "full" internet?

Going further, why on Earth would Apple even hint to Nokia that they were working on the iPhone?

Re: Safari is released to the world

#95

Post by [deleted] »

ConstantineXVI wrote: post #65
Yaggo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be kidding.

WebKit core gets commits from nearly every major hardware manufacturer and OS vendor that isn't Microsoft. Unless Apple's stripping all those commits out of spite, iOS WebKit contains code from Nokia, RIM, Samsung, HPalm, Google, and many others that might be seen as competitors otherwise.

[deleted]

Re: Safari is released to the world

#97

Post by DanBC »

joezydeco wrote: post #89
podperson wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://folklore.org/index.py

I hold hope that one day we'll have a folklore.org equivalent for the period where Steve returned to Apple up to the iPhone or thereabouts. Even a "Soul of a New Machine"-type book about the development of some products (iPod, iPhone, OSX) would be interesting. In either case, Don, thanks for these stories. Any insight at all into how the sausage gets made is a great read.

People may have heard of "Rock Family Trees" - you look at the members of bands and trace backwards (and forwards) to see all the other bands involved.

Here's an example for Crosby Stills & Nash (http://familyofrock.com/browse/details/csny.html) and one for Eric Clapton (http://familyofrock.com/browse/details/clapton.html)

It could be interesting to do a "Start up family trees" to see the flow of people throughout the industry.

> In either case, Don, thanks for these stories. Any insight at all into how the sausage gets made is a great read.

Strongly agree.

Re: Safari is released to the world

#98

Post by bdash »

binarycrusader wrote: post #94
dave1010uk wrote: post #32

I'd like to hear about how WebKit went mobile for the iPhone. Eg if Apple worked with Nokia and their port of WebKit to Symbian, or started their own port from scratch.

WebKit was open sourced roughly a week (June 7, 2005) before Nokia announced the port to their phone (June 13, 2005). That means that Nokia was able to do the port in less than a week with (presumably) a few competent developers. As the other person said, you must be kidding if you think Apple worked with Nokia. Did you read any of the posts that have been flying by? WebKit was a project shrouded in almost total secr…

> WebKit was open sourced roughly a week (June 7, 2005) before Nokia announced the port to their phone (June 13, 2005). That means that Nokia was able to do the port in less than a week with (presumably) a few competent developers.

While the ex-Nokia developers I've met have all been excellent engineers, they certainly didn't port WebKit to their mobile devices in under a week. June 7, 2005 marks the date that Apple started WebKit as an open source project. That is, on that date the CVS repository and Bugzilla instance were made publicly available. For over two years prior to that point Apple had been publishing the source code of the two main components of WebKit, JavaScriptCore and WebCore, alongside Safari releases. Nokia's port of WebKit to Symbian was based on those releases, and it wasn't until late 2006[1] that Nokia started developing against the current WebKit SVN repository.

[1] http://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11540

Re: Safari is released to the world

#99

Post by binarycrusader »

bdash wrote: post #98
binarycrusader wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebKit was open sourced roughly a week (June 7, 2005) before Nokia announced the port to their phone (June 13, 2005). That means that Nokia was able to do the port in less than a week with (presumably) a few competent developers. As the other person said, you must be kidding if you think Apple worked with Nokia. Did you read any of the posts that have been flying by? WebKit was a project shrouded in almost total secr…

> WebKit was open sourced roughly a week (June 7, 2005) before Nokia announced the port to their phone (June 13, 2005). That means that Nokia was able to do the port in less than a week with (presumably) a few competent developers. While the ex-Nokia developers I've met have all been excellent engineers, they certainly didn't port WebKit to their mobile devices in under a week. June 7, 2005 marks the date that Apple…

Fair enough. But the point remains that I doubt Apple would have needed Nokia's help porting their own code to their own secret platform. It would have been commercial suicide practically to let a competitor know.
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