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Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

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Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#271

Post by jacquesm »

greghinch wrote: post #214
gknoy wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would also consider vesting for both of you, keeps things honest. For those of us who are complete neophytes at things like this, would you be willing to elaborate on what this means, and why it's important?

Thanks to the others for explaining vesting, they are spot in. Basically, you don't want to end up in a situation where your co-founder can take off after 6 months and still have 50% of the company. Co-founder==co-worker, in the strictest sense. Conversely, if the $8k is to be treated as just investment (which would not fall under vesting) he should be taking much less than 50%.

It's not just an investment though, the OP has committed to doing some serious marketing, let's say at least equal to the amount of work that the dev co-founder puts in to create the product in the first place.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#272

Post by r0s »

brudgers wrote: post #22
hmexx wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but I prefer sharing my identity on a 1-on-1 basis during project discussions, rather than put it in the proposition.

[thread flagged] To me, this is a red flag. The offer is set before the entire HN community. It has substantial financial and legal implications. You are competing with YC. Your track record is relevant to the ranking of this thread on HN.

He's not withholding identity indefinably, just filtering for privacy sake.

That's reasonable to me. Anybody could out him once they connect, if he was a shady character the ruse wouldn't last long.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#273

Post by jacquesm »

orionblastar wrote: post #270
jacquesm wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've taken substantially larger chances on some HN members, anonymous to me at the time and I think everybody came out ahead, sometimes even considerably ahead. What you would do or not do is entirely besides the point. If you don't think this is a valid proposition, then don't do it. Who cares who the 'candidate' is, I'm sure that anybody that enters into this will want to know before they commit to two months work,…

This is basically a 'poker' business deal, there is risk to it, some bluffing, and you hold most if not all of the chips. I got for the 'chess' business deal, strategy, tactics, planning, thinking ahead of the competition, sacrificing time and pieces to advance that pawn or take key pieces and then win the game. No bluffing, just out-thinking and studying book moves. Chess in 12 dimensions actually.

I don't see the risk. Other than that for me $5K is not nearly enough to cover for two months of my time the deal is actually quite good (I value that 50% at exactly nothing as you can see).

If the OP is worth his salt in the marketing game is the big variable, he believes he is good enough to warrant a $8K outlay, more than half of which goes to his co-founder to cover their time.

I've seen people study chess book moves for half a lifetime and still not be able to play a half decent game of chess. All I have to do to throw them off is play (1) b2-b4 -

50% of an MVP + cash to cover for your time + a co-founder to boot + $3K in marketing budget for your MVP is not a bad deal by many standards, and if you end up not liking the deal you can take your toys and go home and the OP is the loser.

He's betting that it works, not betting that he can screw you over.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#274

Post by orionblastar »

phillmv wrote: post #28
JaneLovesDotNet wrote: post #2

Pre-emptive FAQ: Isn't this a horrible deal? Incubators typically inject more money for far less equity! I earn $10K a month, I could easily save up $8K in a few months, and do this myself for 100% equity. True. If you can get into YCombinator, for example , you should obviously go for it. I can't compete with that. If you're earning $150K+, or you've already been working on your side-project for a year, this may not…

Just to counter some of the negativity in here, As a partner in a consulting shop just starting out, this isn't a bad proposition. It nets you rent money to work on scratching a pet peeve; if you're between clients and you've got something really simple you can wrap up in a month at a discounted rate this is a great idea. HN is filled with "passive income strategies" blog posts that revolve around short projects like…

Yeah but doing this without:

A NDA, a No-Compete Clause in a contract, and even nothing written down and signed and witnessed by a notary public just rings alarm bells in my head.

What stops him from taking your MVP project and doing it with someone else? What stops him from telling others about your project so they can copy it or do it better?

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#275

Post by jacquesm »

btilly wrote: post #236
jacquesm wrote: post #141

To the naysayers in this thread: You have several options here other than just saying 'oohhh, this is mean and nasty'. - match the offer with a better one, so all those that would take up the OP would flock to you instead - build your MVP, keep 100% and then do your own marketing. $5000 for 50% difference but you get to do all the work. Either one of those would be so much more effective than just berating the OP or…

Actually it is $8000 for 50% difference because it isn't just the initial $5000, you also would have to pay $3000 for marketing. And if the OP knows more about how to market than you do, you'd actually need to spend more than that to market your idea as well as the OP will.

Good points, you're absolutely right.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#277

Post by orionblastar »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #58
ezl wrote: post #36

I love this idea. I realize there are haters out there. I'll match this offer as well for anyone who is interested. Yes, it sounds like a bad deal for some people. But for a lot of people its a great way to: 1. not have to find work for a month, 2. work on something they're passionate about anyways, 3. have an idea of theirs that may not have otherwise seen light of day become a reality.

Can I suggest that this is turning into a HN Matchmaking service Perhaps a little codification might be good: * A Maker puts their idea onto HS with "MatchMake HN: " * Any interested Investor then replies * Maker chooses Investor (possibly publically) * A month later a "Show HN" is published. I would be interested seeing everyone's results

That is a good idea for a MVP right there. A HM matchmaking service. Using accounts at HN it matches MVPs with investors/cofounders.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#278

Post by dalore »

eranation wrote: post #199
ChuckMcM wrote: post #117

This discussion is awesome! I would never have believed such a simple conjecture could provide so much illumination around the myths and realities of startups. First, its a great deal, both for hmexx and folks who take him up on it. Frankly I think it could be revolutionary. My reasoning is as follows; Many "products" over the last couple of years have been fairly straight forward web "apps" built on top of existing…

I like it but I think the order should be reversed, before building the MVP, I would have built a landing page for each idea (after filtering the good ones), spend some money on marketing first and see if it gets beta sign ups traction (developer commits that if it does, they'll build it), only then pay for building it (I would also offer to sign an NDA with the developer protecting their idea if the deal doesn't exe…

So you've alienated all your early adopter customers by saying you have a product but you don't have anything.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#279

Post by orionblastar »

derefr wrote: post #114
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I suggest that this is turning into a HN Matchmaking service Perhaps a little codification might be good: * A Maker puts their idea onto HS with "MatchMake HN: " * Any interested Investor then replies * Maker chooses Investor (possibly publically) * A month later a "Show HN" is published. I would be interested seeing everyone's results

I'm now imagining building a marketplace site roughly like eLance/oDesk/whatever else, where the investor can put money in escrow and clients (freelancers) can "bid"--but it's the freelancers who are proposing the jobs in their entirety, not the investor.

Wouldn't it be funny if a MVP uses one of those freelance sites and spends the $5000 on a team in India to finish the project in two months and then has the $3000 to promote it? Subcontracting can be fun you know.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#280

Post by jacquesm »

orionblastar wrote: post #274
phillmv wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to counter some of the negativity in here, As a partner in a consulting shop just starting out, this isn't a bad proposition. It nets you rent money to work on scratching a pet peeve; if you're between clients and you've got something really simple you can wrap up in a month at a discounted rate this is a great idea. HN is filled with "passive income strategies" blog posts that revolve around short projects like…

Yeah but doing this without: A NDA, a No-Compete Clause in a contract, and even nothing written down and signed and witnessed by a notary public just rings alarm bells in my head. What stops him from taking your MVP project and doing it with someone else? What stops him from telling others about your project so they can copy it or do it better?

> What stops him from taking your MVP project and doing it with someone else?

Nothing whatsoever. But then again, since we're talking about ideas that would be on the shelf anyway not a whole lot would be lost.

And the OP would be outed and burned beyond recovery. Anybody stupid enough to risk that on a forum as widely recognized as this one would be seriously out of their mind.

> What stops him from telling others about your project so they can copy it or do it better?

Again, absolutely nothing. What stops YC from doing something like that when you apply to YC?

This all boils down to basic trust, and at some point in the business game you're going to have to extend yourself far enough that you can get burned a little if you want to up your game.

This guy is extending himself far enough that he'll get burned a lot if he abuses the trust he's getting here. That alone should count as some insurance.

Imagine how many upvotes a post along the lines of "That hmexx dude is XXX YYY in real life and screwed me over" will get. Probably even more than "That hmexx dude is XXX YYY in real life, we did this thing and have just picked up follow on investment".

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