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Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

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221–230 of 395 posts

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#221

This discussion is awesome! I would never have believed such a simple conjecture could provide so much illumination around the myths and realities of startups. First, its a great deal, both for hmexx and folks who take him up on it. Frankly I think it could be revolutionary. My reasoning is as follows; Many "products" over the last couple of years have been fairly straight forward web "apps" built on top of existing…

I like it but I think the order should be reversed, before building the MVP, I would have built a landing page for each idea (after filtering the good ones), spend some money on marketing first and see if it gets beta sign ups traction (developer commits that if it does, they'll build it), only then pay for building it (I would also offer to sign an NDA with the developer protecting their idea if the deal doesn't exe…

That system has worked in other creative endeavors as well, the whole 'landing page/sign-up' thing is a way to de-risk concept development but that may not be the issue here.

One has to optimize for the 'harder' thing being done. So if the challenge is getting the MVP written, then this order makes sense, the risk on the $3000 is less than the risk on the $5000. If the challenge is getting people to understand it, then doing the landing page first makes sense. From hmexx's point of view $8,000 is at risk either way, except he "knows" he can do the customer acquisition part but doesn't know if someone can do the "MVP" part.

One of the realities this discussion has highlighted is how little young engineers (and some older ones too!) value the whole marketing/customer acquisition thing. But the beauty of it is that when the risk arbitrage is low enough, that doesn't matter. One has to ask is there a 'funding round' that is earlier than a 'seed/angel' round? Maybe an 'idea' round. Two people come together, one proves they can execute on building an MVP and one proves they can execute by acquiring customers, then the pair take the next step (assuming the thing works and customers are found). This really side steps the whole "I've got a great idea if I could just get it off the ground" discussion into "What are you willing to bet?"

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like it but I think the order should be reversed, before building the MVP, I would have built a landing page for each idea (after filtering the good ones), spend some money on marketing first and see if it gets beta sign ups traction (developer commits that if it does, they'll build it), only then pay for building it (I would also offer to sign an NDA with the developer protecting their idea if the deal doesn't exe…

On the other hand if someone beats you to the punch after discovering your market research, you wasted time and energy.

If someone "beats you to the punch" then they would have beat you anyway. If you have an idea that's so simple that it can be easily replicated from a signup / info page, it probably wouldn't last.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like it but I think the order should be reversed, before building the MVP, I would have built a landing page for each idea (after filtering the good ones), spend some money on marketing first and see if it gets beta sign ups traction (developer commits that if it does, they'll build it), only then pay for building it (I would also offer to sign an NDA with the developer protecting their idea if the deal doesn't exe…

On the other hand if someone beats you to the punch after discovering your market research, you wasted time and energy.

It's always a problem and a catch 22, you want to get customers, but also avoid competition, but I think the trend today is that stealth mode is not that helpful, there are so many ideas and if you believe what they say in the news, not enough developers to build them, your big enemy is a market with no customers, not a market with competitors. if you launch 3 months after someone in today's world, even if they manage to get a few thousands customers ahead, it doesn't make much difference in my opinion if you build it better, you'll catch up.

As someone said here earlier, idea is just a multiplier of execution.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand if someone beats you to the punch after discovering your market research, you wasted time and energy.

If someone "beats you to the punch" then they would have beat you anyway. If you have an idea that's so simple that it can be easily replicated from a signup / info page, it probably wouldn't last.

First mover advantage. In the time it takes for you to do market research, others may already have a leg-up in starting something which may converge to your idea before you launch. And having that initial traction may completely squelch your launch

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#225
This whole discussion is amazing. He pretty much removed any obstacle you might have to create your idea, offered his experience... and then a torrent of excuses and whining came back :). I am sure a bunch of smart people are probably taking him on the offer.

hmexx if you would like, hit me up, I have several ideas that I am trying to create, you obviously have experience gaining traction, so maybe we could agree on one or two to work on it, I need a good cofounder.

You don't need to pay me anything, in fact, we could both add 2-3K (more is excessive) as initial funds for each project.

Obviously I would like to know a little about you and you can evaluate me as a potential partner.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#226

It's funny, because developers do this sort of thing all the time for much less equity. Startup: Hey, come work here for below market salary for 5% that vests over 4 years Dev: Sounds rad! This guy: Hey, work on your own project for 50%, and you only have to work on is the MVP for a month, and I'll pay you sort of crappy but probably better than other people in other fields. HN Devs: You. fucking. bastard.

It is funny. Although, I don't think that comparison is completely fair. Usually, a startup that has started hiring has already achieved some degree of progress, traction, and demonstrated potential.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#227
This sounds like a very interesting deal. It wouldn't be right for my particular circumstances, but I imagine there are others out there for which it is a good fit. I would be really interested in hearing progress reports from your venture(s) down the line.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#228
post #9
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US resident only / Europe / rest of the world ? Payment terms ? (upfront / milestones / finished) Future company as a delaware C/S-corp ?

Still need to iron out the details but... World. Upfront will be small (possibly nil) to prevent time-wasters. We can agree milestones based on nature of project. Once code is flowing onto a shared repository for a couple days, I'll feel comfortable starting the money drip. C/S corp in Delaware sounds reasonable. A yet to be drafted, founder's agreement to be signed at project start also to protect both parties.

What about terms? Would your ownership be participating preferred? preferred? common? In other words, would all founders be diluted equally?

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#229
post #10

Wow. I'd rather go on fucking Shark Tank. If someone is willing to take $5,000 to do the heavy lifting up front (therein taking most of the risk) for only 50% equity, their idea is either terrible or they aren't committed to seeing it through.

Or they live in a second/third world country, or they're a student, or...

+1 student

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#230
This proposition was a great idea being trapped in a limited framework. Great because it was validated very well in the most profitable segment, i.e., HN programmers. Limited because right now, the investor side is monopolistic (no offense). Scaling MVP takes time, and hmexx won't be able to run 20 projects at the same time.

I think this model should be expanded into two-sided market to attract more capital and more diverse background from techie investors. These techie investors may indeed come from Hacker News community themselves, who are more mature startup-wise (more capital and experience). Although the model has not been tested on the investors' side, I can sense a healthy demand from the comments here (especially from haters' camp :))

P/S: hmexx, would you consider this as my proposal for your 8K investment? :)

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