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Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

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Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#151

Post by duked »

drp4929 wrote: post #75
hmexx wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. I can see where you are coming from, although even if you found out my real identity (which might be possible if you look carefully enough through my history of comments), you would not find anything that would substantially strengthen the proposition. I'm no one special... just a techie with some moderate success who wants to help launch some cool new products.

Until you reveal your identity, you're wasting everyone's time.

I personally don't think his identity is relevant to all HN, but it's definitely something that's going to be revealed to the selected candidate/project because of the legal implication.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#152

Post by ricardobeat »

saddino wrote: post #110

Premise 2 is flawed IMO. An MVP built by a lone, but talented techie for $5000 / number_of_hours, isn't likely to turn into something 'successful' at all because 1) someone who values their time so little is probably not that talented, and 2) an idea whose perceived valuation is essentially $8K probably isn't that good to begin with.

The US isn't the only country in the world where business and software dev happens. US$ 5k is ~2 months a good developer salary over here in Brazil, it's a pretty decent amount for one month of work.

Most importantly, 99% of ideas are valued at $0.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#153

Post by dorkrawk »

Considering the very low percentage of IDEAS that turn into valuable companies, especially without the injection of new contacts and business expertise that an incubator might provide this actually seems like an OK deal. If hmexx does 10 of these, there's a very good chance that he'll flush $80K down the crapper and 10 developers will have had a great time building something they care about and learning a TON about what it's like to work full time on something alone. Perhaps some new friendships are forged.

If you know that your idea is THE big idea that can be worth millions, take $5K out of the bank or your retirement fund or sell your car or do anything in your power to come up with 2 months of survival money and do it on your own. If not, have some risk free fun and a great experience building something awesome with hmexx's money.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#154

Post by ricardobeat »

dudurocha wrote: post #78
hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$ 8000 is 1-2 months salary for a top developer in Brazil, depending on experience. To work on a side-project you're trying to get off the ground, it's fair.

Hey man, I'm from brazil too. Where in Brazil you receive 16k reais for two months of coding? I can see this only in a high level of seniority.

I assume he was thinking in R$, not dollars, with a slightly <2x exchange rate. Either way, a developer is not going to leave a good paying job like that, if he can just save for a few months and own 100%.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#155

Post by absherwin »

brudgers wrote: post #137
absherwin wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were a one time game you'd be correct. Assuming, he can quickly filter out a significant portion, it's possible to be very involved and have a significant chance of a large exit. This, of course, assumes that he's good at what he does which is an underlying assumption of this whole proposition. Rationale: Let's assume a home-run rate of about 3% which is my rough estimate of what it is for YC startups. That m…

That's a good argument except it depends on: (a) one person being able to do the job of the entire YC team. (b) that person having equivalent relationships with additional capital. (c) one might make the case that the relationships to capital must be better because ventures are likely to be located further from conventional sources of capital. 50% equity is a lot to give up for two months of effort unless the other c…

The entire YC team can advise ~66 startups and they have ~14 people which suggests a person can advise 4-5 startups at a YC-level. It's not quite equivalent since YC has the benefit of multiple perspectives though at the cost of increased coordination.

The truth of b & c are completely dependent on who hmexx is.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#156

Post by freehunter »

jeremyarussell wrote: post #49
hmexx wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If interested, drop me a line at hnproject2013@gmail.com If you have questions or HN-style critic on the structure/proposition, write below and help me build proposition version 1.1!

I'd take you up on the offer, but for a couple things. Maybe it just means this isn't for me. 1 - That 50 - 50 split is a killer when I'm doing most of the work. 2 - You talk about taking a month or two and full time working on this project until completion. Trust me when I say I'd love to do that, the issue is I can't just go jump back into the same job as if I didn't ditch everyone here for two months. Like I said…

I like the 50-50 split (although another poster's suggestion of 49/51 makes sense to me as well, a clear owner of the project if they need to split up). He's not giving you a job offer. He's giving you investment money to make a project, and promises of royalties after he has marketed it.

Think of it this way: would you have made $8000 in a month or two without his investment? Would you have potential for continuing income on that project afterwards? If the answer is yes, then this isn't the deal for you. If the answer is no, then what's the harm? If you're in position to negotiate this as a deal breaker, you're likely in position to find something more flexible. If you're unemployed and want some money while you work on a project you've been dying to work on, you've just come out ahead. There are plenty of job offers for freelance/contract programming that don't offer 50% royalties, or royalties at all.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#157

Post by freehunter »

dropdownmenu wrote: post #21
hmexx wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If interested, drop me a line at hnproject2013@gmail.com If you have questions or HN-style critic on the structure/proposition, write below and help me build proposition version 1.1!

Interesting idea, but it sounds like you are just trying to have someone make a product for 8k which you can go and sell. Can you specify ways that you will be involved to justify the 50-50 split?

You're getting paid $25/hr, a $52,000 salary if the job were to last a year. Maybe not Silicon Valley money, but good money for anyone who can even begin to consider this deal. More money than I make in a year. That's good enough. The 50% is icing on the cake. He's hiring a programmer, and paying you to stay on as technical co-founder.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#158

Post by EwanG »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #58
ezl wrote: post #36

I love this idea. I realize there are haters out there. I'll match this offer as well for anyone who is interested. Yes, it sounds like a bad deal for some people. But for a lot of people its a great way to: 1. not have to find work for a month, 2. work on something they're passionate about anyways, 3. have an idea of theirs that may not have otherwise seen light of day become a reality.

Can I suggest that this is turning into a HN Matchmaking service Perhaps a little codification might be good: * A Maker puts their idea onto HS with "MatchMake HN: " * Any interested Investor then replies * Maker chooses Investor (possibly publically) * A month later a "Show HN" is published. I would be interested seeing everyone's results

This would be of interest to me as well. Have just about finished recoding the game that I couldn't get in the MS store due to tester issues. Have been able to do this one with my own skills and some volunteer VAs. I want to do a bigger VN as a follow-up, and this time pay the VAs, and pay someone else to do the artwork so I can concentrate on the script and programming. Getting some dollars up front so I can start it now, and have someone else be point on marketing would be darn close to ideal. I'd probably want a 51 - 49 split so I have creative control, but otherwise...

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#159

Post by freehunter »

katzgrau wrote: post #46

It's funny, because developers do this sort of thing all the time for much less equity. Startup: Hey, come work here for below market salary for 5% that vests over 4 years Dev: Sounds rad! This guy: Hey, work on your own project for 50%, and you only have to work on is the MVP for a month, and I'll pay you sort of crappy but probably better than other people in other fields. HN Devs: You. fucking. bastard.

Also - Startup: And you're going to be working on our project, with the documents and design we came up with. Dev: Great!

This guy: Work on your own idea! Have your own dream! I'll just put in the money and experience to make the business a success. HN Devs: You're not offering enough to have a 50% share in the company that wouldn't exist without you!

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#160

Post by Mankhool »

reinhardt wrote: post #136
JaneLovesDotNet wrote: post #2

Pre-emptive FAQ: Isn't this a horrible deal? Incubators typically inject more money for far less equity! I earn $10K a month, I could easily save up $8K in a few months, and do this myself for 100% equity. True. If you can get into YCombinator, for example , you should obviously go for it. I can't compete with that. If you're earning $150K+, or you've already been working on your side-project for a year, this may not…

I think you're on to something here. One suggestion for the 1.1 version: relax Premise 4. A talented developer/designer may not necessarily have good (or any) ideas. I could see myself taking up such an offer if I didn't have to come up with the idea but instead I liked and had a good hunch about a suggested idea by the candidate co-founder.

I find the OP's idea and post really interesting and this discussion enlightening. It has made me re-think the notion of angel investing as this is very grass-roots (one developer, one idea, one partner/investor). However, as a non-coder (not since 1984) whenever I have tried to find a technical co-founder I always hear the argument that coders have tons of their own ideas so why would they build mine - especially for 5-8K. The OP is calling out the coders WITH ideas - it would be interesting to see how many really have undeveloped ideas vs. how many do not.
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