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Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

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101–110 of 395 posts

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#101
post #75
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. I can see where you are coming from, although even if you found out my real identity (which might be possible if you look carefully enough through my history of comments), you would not find anything that would substantially strengthen the proposition. I'm no one special... just a techie with some moderate success who wants to help launch some cool new products.

Until you reveal your identity, you're wasting everyone's time.

He's really only wasting about 30 seconds of it, though, as comments and Google are indeed the only two things required. He appears to be exactly what he says he is.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#102
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed about the co-founder vs. investor problem. I would suggest anyone who wants to take this offer up do their diligence on hmexx and find out what he's bringing to the table as a co-founder. If it's just $8k for half a company that you will have to split 50/50 for the rest of it's existence, be wary. If he's a co-founder, he should join in on the workload after the MVP is proven. I would also consider vesting for…

> I would also consider vesting for both of you, keeps things honest. For those of us who are complete neophytes at things like this, would you be willing to elaborate on what this means, and why it's important?

People use the term "vesting" to refer to a clause typically embodied in a founders' agreement in which the shares "vest," or become shares that you actually have a right of ownership over, if you continue to perform your duties.

Vesting schedules typically last 4 years with shares vesting quarterly or monthly.

So, you can think of it like this: After year one, you'll own a 1/4 of your 50%, or 12.5%. Year two, 1/2, or 25% ...and so on. You don't actually own the full 50% (i.e. doesn't "fully vest") until year 4.

Many vesting agreements carry a one year cliff, which means that none of your shares vest if you leave the company before performing for one full year. This is to prevent the "lazy founder" problem, where one founder is doing most of the work and the other one is goofing off, or decides to leave and take another job.

This is important because the first year is the most risky for a startup and requires all hands on deck. If someone flakes out, you can't have a big chunk of shares tied up in them. One, because it isn't fair. Two, because you likely need to go find yourself another founder or will need that equity for first employees. It scares off experienced founders and investors to see a chunk of your cap table trapped in a "bad decision" founder that flaked out. This same logic carries over to why there are vesting arrangements... you shouldn't be compensated if you abandon the company and don't put in the same work as the other founder.

Hope that helped explain what it is and the reasoning for it!

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#104
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd take you up on the offer, but for a couple things. Maybe it just means this isn't for me. 1 - That 50 - 50 split is a killer when I'm doing most of the work. 2 - You talk about taking a month or two and full time working on this project until completion. Trust me when I say I'd love to do that, the issue is I can't just go jump back into the same job as if I didn't ditch everyone here for two months. Like I said…

You're asserting that customer acquisition is easy and low cost. It's not. For a product that can be built in 2 months (per the guidance here), it is going to take much more time to develop the sales and marketing and acquire enough customers to make it profitable. I think this underscores why this may be a great deal for a (young?) developer with limited business experience. I learned a lot of hard lessons like this…

I see where you thought I was asserting anything, when I said the 50 - 50 split was a killer for me doing most of the work. I hadn't really meant it like that but since your right in that customer acquisition isn't easy for people that have never done it then I refer you to a comment I posted below. That this is really for someone who has a crummy low wage job and would stand to gain a lot out of the deal.

As for me personally (which I said off the bat was the kind of answers I was bringing. Personal opinions on why I myself wouldn't do it.) I feel comfortable with my ability to sale to people and gain good traction and growth.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#105
post #55

"At this point, I'll take over and spend an additional $3000 to acquire enough users/customers for us to evaluate the project's likelihood of success. We split the resulting company 50-50, as equal co-founders." How does this scale. Presumably in Hacker X builds a product you like and you're able to find success with your $3000 and marketing efforts, how does the relationship move on. Presumably, you've now built a p…

That is a very good though. I sure would hate to put 100% into my 50% and the other 50% of the company only allow 10% because the other 90% is in 9 other companies... You said it better.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they live in a second/third world country, or they're a student, or...

$5000 to spend a month working on something you love isn't that bad for many places in the US, even. I wouldn't take this deal, because stopping / starting employment isn't that easy for me, but I can see other people rationally taking it. And if other people think he's underbidding, I would encourage them to bid him up.

I wouldn't take this deal, because stopping / starting employment isn't that easy for me

But for those people who freelance, and are in between jobs this may well be an ideal opportunity to (continue) being paid for doing something they have been thinking about for a long time.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#108
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If interested, drop me a line at hnproject2013@gmail.com If you have questions or HN-style critic on the structure/proposition, write below and help me build proposition version 1.1!

I'd take you up on the offer, but for a couple things. Maybe it just means this isn't for me. 1 - That 50 - 50 split is a killer when I'm doing most of the work. 2 - You talk about taking a month or two and full time working on this project until completion. Trust me when I say I'd love to do that, the issue is I can't just go jump back into the same job as if I didn't ditch everyone here for two months. Like I said…

I dunno - you're doing most of the technical work. Looks like OP is doing all the marketing. That sounds like a sweet deal to me; if I had a convincing MVP lined up in my head I'd probably go for it. (After due diligence on whether OP is a flake or not, of course (no offense intended to OP)).

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#109

Pre-emptive FAQ: Isn't this a horrible deal? Incubators typically inject more money for far less equity! I earn $10K a month, I could easily save up $8K in a few months, and do this myself for 100% equity. True. If you can get into YCombinator, for example , you should obviously go for it. I can't compete with that. If you're earning $150K+, or you've already been working on your side-project for a year, this may not…

The time commitments which come from an incubator are related to why YC's stakes are in the range they are, and why it consists of partners.

How many investments are you making?

One or two, maybe 50% equity is fair for your efforts at building traction and growing the company.

Ten, probably not.

A hundred, no way.

On the other hand, a 100 investments is probably what is needed for the chance at a real payday. On Graham's premises, it doesn't really matter how much equity one takes because the return on the home runs is so large. Thus the 50-50 indicates that the goal is not home runs but more modest exits.

Re: Proposition HN: I will pay $8000 for you to build your side-project/MVP

#110
Premise 2 is flawed IMO. An MVP built by a lone, but talented techie for $5000 / number_of_hours, isn't likely to turn into something 'successful' at all because 1) someone who values their time so little is probably not that talented, and 2) an idea whose perceived valuation is essentially $8K probably isn't that good to begin with.
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