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The Crisis of the Middle Class and American Power

stratfor.com

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Re: The Crisis of the Middle Class and American Power

#21

Post by scarmig »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #18
scarmig wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government policies, perhaps, though mostly in the sense that it creates the regulatory environment that finance works in. But government debt? Hardly. It may have been a headwind due to issues in Europe, but the core cause was overleveraged financial firms.

Government policies are what created gargantuan financial firms who were in a position to overleverage themselves because they didn't think there was any risk in it. And low and behold governments bailed their asses out. In a more diversified market the companies that had overleveraged themselves would simply have gone under. More so, in a situation where the government had not put pressure on lenders to give loans t…

See "Did Affordable Housing Legislation Contribute to the Subprime Securities Boom?" at http://research.stlouisfed.org/wp/2012/2012-005.pdf

Abstract: No.

Re: The Crisis of the Middle Class and American Power

#22

Post by amcaskill »

awakeasleep wrote: post #13

This sure fits an interesting middle ground sort of journalism. I don't think I'm quite qualified to describe it, anyone up to help? For one, it tackles the same insecurity subject conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones approach. However, he keeps it in the realm of rationality. What is the "It"? The main subject seems to be a description of the position and orientation of classes in USA society, and how they're changi…

Stratfor isn't really a news media company like the times or a tv station. IIRC they sell analysis & forecasting services to governments and large corporations.

The author of this article wrote a book called The Next 100 Years which is a pretty interesting read.

Re: The Crisis of the Middle Class and American Power

#23

Post by frogpelt »

tsotha wrote: post #5
CleanedStar wrote: post #3

When Karl Marx wrote Capital in 1867, he said capitalism would never be able to get rid of credit bubbles, financial crises, high unemployment etc. He said that over time the problems would get worse and worse with greater and greater financial crises. Here we are about a century and a half later and you just have to look at the housing bubble, the bank crisis, TARP and the government bailout, unemployment in the US…

Much of Marx's critiques of capitalism make some sense. The problem is nobody has come up with a better system for lifting people out of poverty.

There will always be impoverished people. Capitalism provides the best opportunity to choose not to be.

Re: The Crisis of the Middle Class and American Power

#24

Post by alexqgb »

scarmig wrote: post #11
CleanedStar wrote: post #3

When Karl Marx wrote Capital in 1867, he said capitalism would never be able to get rid of credit bubbles, financial crises, high unemployment etc. He said that over time the problems would get worse and worse with greater and greater financial crises. Here we are about a century and a half later and you just have to look at the housing bubble, the bank crisis, TARP and the government bailout, unemployment in the US…

Marx, however, was and is historically inaccurate. Both in his understanding of the past and his predictions of the future. Check out Immanuel Wallerstein or Fernand Braudel for more accurate, careful, and relevant histories that're not just glorifications of the ruling class. Looking at your example, it fails to explain why wages rose for 200 years before the alleged stagnation hit (sure, you can hack some Leninist…

Braudel is a fantastic historian in his own right, but especially important in this context in that he started his career as an overt Marxist who wanted to contribute to Marx's theory by supplying the actual history on which it depended. That is to say, a history told not from the perspective of popes and princes, but one based on material data about the world's great systems; macro-economic factors like weather patterns and the price of grain. This was supposed to be the vantage point from which the nefarious dynamic of capital would reveal itself most clearly, with the underlying data providing an empirical basis for Marx's economic theory, thereby grounding the whole enterprise in reality.

As it turned out, materialist history did provide a very revealing perspective, but not the one Braudel anticipated. Quite the opposite. Among its many revelations was the unavoidable fact that Marx's assertions about history simply weren't supported by the facts. Over time, Braudel found his reverence waning. Eventually, his loss of faith turned into outright rejection. That said, were it not for Marx, Braudel's absolutely brilliant history may never have been written. And that would be a shame, since the materialist approach that Braudel pioneered has become more relevant than ever in our own data-driven age.

http://www.amazon.com/Civilization-Capitalism-15th-18th-Cent...

Re: The Crisis of the Middle Class and American Power

#25

Post by hindsightbias »

scarmig wrote: post #21
InclinedPlane wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government policies are what created gargantuan financial firms who were in a position to overleverage themselves because they didn't think there was any risk in it. And low and behold governments bailed their asses out. In a more diversified market the companies that had overleveraged themselves would simply have gone under. More so, in a situation where the government had not put pressure on lenders to give loans t…

See "Did Affordable Housing Legislation Contribute to the Subprime Securities Boom?" at http://research.stlouisfed.org/wp/2012/2012-005.pdf Abstract: No.

Don't bother. No amount of evidence can overcome these ideologues biases.

Re: The Crisis of the Middle Class and American Power

#26

Post by martinced »

CleanedStar wrote: post #3

When Karl Marx wrote Capital in 1867, he said capitalism would never be able to get rid of credit bubbles, financial crises, high unemployment etc. He said that over time the problems would get worse and worse with greater and greater financial crises. Here we are about a century and a half later and you just have to look at the housing bubble, the bank crisis, TARP and the government bailout, unemployment in the US…

Because socialism or communism works so much better right? People are especially envious of the great freedom people in North Korea are enjoying? Same as Cuba? Venezuela? Argentina? (wanna change your currency to another one in Argentina to hedge yourself against a very strong inflation? you can't, because the socialist state won't let you do that)

What's next after Karl Marx? That the homophobic racist murderer that was the Che Guevara was correct?

The thing that saddens me the most on a forum supposedly made of entrepreneurs trying to create wealth is to see that there are so many people who are still failing for the poisonous words of a corrupt few who would have just loved to rule the earth: be it Kim-Jong Ill or Kim-Karl Marx, it makes me very very scared.

The first thing socialists and communists tries to do is to ruin everyone and reinforce the power of the state.

I choose freedom. Even if it means bubbles and crises.

I prefer that to slavery.

"Better dead than red".

Thankfully I'm not alone.

Re: The Crisis of the Middle Class and American Power

#27

Post by batgaijin »

awakeasleep wrote: post #13

This sure fits an interesting middle ground sort of journalism. I don't think I'm quite qualified to describe it, anyone up to help? For one, it tackles the same insecurity subject conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones approach. However, he keeps it in the realm of rationality. What is the "It"? The main subject seems to be a description of the position and orientation of classes in USA society, and how they're changi…

I think it's a lot simpler and sadder than what we want to admit. Most viewers of Fox News are pretty old, and most viewers/readers of liberal media have high paying white collar jobs.

Most people are working multiple jobs and don't interact with politics, so they more or less don't have to be appeased to. They are just trying to pay their bills.

Re: The Crisis of the Middle Class and American Power

#28

Post by martinced »

seiji wrote: post #4
CleanedStar wrote: post #3

When Karl Marx wrote Capital in 1867, he said capitalism would never be able to get rid of credit bubbles, financial crises, high unemployment etc. He said that over time the problems would get worse and worse with greater and greater financial crises. Here we are about a century and a half later and you just have to look at the housing bubble, the bank crisis, TARP and the government bailout, unemployment in the US…

Please keep writing more around here. We need people like you and comments like this.

No we don't.

These are poisonous words made by people dreaming of a world made of slaves. Dreaming of a world where the word "freedom" would be forbidden.

The last thing we need now in a time of crisis is socialists or communists trying to push their agenda.

Re: The Crisis of the Middle Class and American Power

#29

Post by rayiner »

martinced wrote: post #26
CleanedStar wrote: post #3

When Karl Marx wrote Capital in 1867, he said capitalism would never be able to get rid of credit bubbles, financial crises, high unemployment etc. He said that over time the problems would get worse and worse with greater and greater financial crises. Here we are about a century and a half later and you just have to look at the housing bubble, the bank crisis, TARP and the government bailout, unemployment in the US…

Because socialism or communism works so much better right? People are especially envious of the great freedom people in North Korea are enjoying? Same as Cuba? Venezuela? Argentina? (wanna change your currency to another one in Argentina to hedge yourself against a very strong inflation? you can't, because the socialist state won't let you do that) What's next after Karl Marx? That the homophobic racist murderer that…

You know, a reactionary living in 19th century might have said "because democracy works so much better right? People are so envious of the great freedom people in France are enjoying." With the memory of the French Revolution fresh in their mind, they probably would have been reasonable to say so.

Re: The Crisis of the Middle Class and American Power

#30

Post by InclinedPlane »

hindsightbias wrote: post #25
scarmig wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See "Did Affordable Housing Legislation Contribute to the Subprime Securities Boom?" at http://research.stlouisfed.org/wp/2012/2012-005.pdf Abstract: No.

Don't bother. No amount of evidence can overcome these ideologues biases.

Yes, I'm sure. That's why I'm taking the time to read this paper. Go back to reddit please.
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