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Another awesome US immigration experience

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Re: Another awesome US immigration experience

#81

Post by jacquesm »

photorized wrote: post #33
seldo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see why you'd think that, but I was totally polite and respectful to the immigration officer at all times -- like I said, I'm a very nervous immigrant, so I would never do anything to jeopardize my processing. I don't fidget or roll my eyes, or indicate impatience. While I'm no fan of the staff of the USCIS, I would never say anything to them to indicate it. Apart from it being very impolite, it would be stupid…

What you described was unremarkable. It should not have been stressful, and it is certainly not worth complaining about.

Different people respond differently to the same situation. What's a walk in the park for one can be heart attack inducing stress for another.

The author considered it worth complaining about, I disagree but again, we're different people.

The fact that you think that it is unremarkable is remarkable, and is part of the reason why this nonsense continues.

Re: Another awesome US immigration experience

#82

Post by kafkaesque »

DrSbaitso wrote: post #34

I'm a Canadian citizen and get this type of treatment all the time. Every time I enter the US, which is about once a month or so, they send me to a back room for secondary screening. The reason? Their system thinks I overstayed my visa once back in 1995. What actually happened was my family took a road trip to New England, and nobody bothered to check our passports on the way out, so there was no departure record. So…

I'm a Canadian citizen. I live in the States.

Without getting into too much detail, I pretty much go around feeling paranoid. When I think about it logically, I really have absolutely no reason to be this way.

I sometimes ask myself why I'm here and when the day I finally leave will come, if it ever comes.

Re: Another awesome US immigration experience

#83

Post by seldo »

jacquesm wrote: post #73
seldo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right: I'm here because the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. But this kind of stuff is what tips the balance the other way, not for me, but for other people like yourself. The problem with the US immigration system is that none of the people suffering in it can vote to change it. The purpose of my story is to raise awareness amongst US citizens who understand the importance of immigration to the economy th…

> But this kind of stuff is what tips the balance the other way, not for me, but for other people like yourself. I made my decision independently long ago. You really should ask yourself: if this is not enough to tip the balance for you (who has experienced it firsthand) why would it tip the balance for someone who only gets it second hand? Nobody is going to fix anything because of this blog post, but you can make a…

Understand that my native country, Trinidad, has laws still on the books that make my sexuality illegal. You have to be pretty shitty to be worse at respecting my dignity and principles than that, so the US has a low bar.

But yes, I could pick some other first-world country to move to. In fact, I lived in the UK for seven years: in that time, I made as much progress in my tech career as I did in my first six months in the US.

I think America really is a land of amazing opportunity, and I believe action to change the system from the inside says more than staying out does. And I believe that America is full of decent, compassionate people who genuinely believe that fairness and justice are bedrock principles of their nation, and would be horrified to learn that this is how their country treats some people -- and I'm right, because I can see them saying so elsewhere in this thread.

This is indeed my bed, but I think I can change the sheets :-)

Re: Another awesome US immigration experience

#85

Post by dkokelley »

I would not want to be a non-citizen in America. I love my country, but I agree with the general sentiment that we have things very wrong when it comes to treatment of non-citizens. I believe that much of it stems from fears about 9/11. The Bill of Rights does lots to protect US citizens from an agressive/repressive government. The spirit of the law is that there are basic human rights that the government can't remove without due process. Unfortunately those "human" rights in practice only barely apply to US citizens.

Re: Another awesome US immigration experience

#86

Post by tellarin »

seldo wrote: post #64
jimmaswell wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't like US immigration? Good, don't emigrate to the US. Once enough people do this that it starts to affect the US GDP I'm sure there will be some change. Less immigrants would negatively affect the GDP? I've heard the opposite many times, but I'm not an economist. Why is that so?

I wrote a long, long blog post about why: http://seldo.com/weblog/2012/11/29/why_all_americans_should_... But the TLDR is: immigration brings skilled workers into the country, who produce more than they consume, raising GDP. So stopping the flow of immigrants causes GDP growth to slow.

Not only skilled workers, but also unskilled workers that are actually economically needed.

Both because there is a lack of workforce in some areas (farms, low-end services) and because, in some countries where inequality is higher, part of the population feels these jobs are "bellow them" but somebody still needs to do them.

And last, even illegal immigrants contribute to move the economy. Everybody has to pay some level of taxes (even if only sales taxes) and has to consume goods. And illegals usually will try to "hide" and not use as much of public services.

I'm not advocating in favor of illegal immigrants. However, in my view, this is one of the main hypocritical reasons people in power complain about illegal immigration and, at the same time, don't do much to stop it nor to legalize those immigrants.

Re: Another awesome US immigration experience

#87

Post by mbesto »

seldo wrote: post #59
jacquesm wrote: post #18

As long as you feel the benefits outweigh the downsides the only person you can complain to is yourself. You're still going there aren't you? I've had an episode quite comparable to this one and it was the last time I visited the US. I don't bitch about it, I don't begrudge the border guards their jobs or attitude (I assume they get a lot of shit heaped on them every day, not an excuse for a non-professional attitude…

You're right: I'm here because the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. But this kind of stuff is what tips the balance the other way, not for me, but for other people like yourself. The problem with the US immigration system is that none of the people suffering in it can vote to change it. The purpose of my story is to raise awareness amongst US citizens who understand the importance of immigration to the economy th…

> But this kind of stuff is what tips the balance the other way, not for me, but for other people like yourself.

Says who? How do you speak on others behalf? No offense, but your post (like many others) just sounds like someone who is upset that were inconvenienced for a day. If you have all of your papers sorted out (and nothing is fishy), what's so mentally anguishing about having to wait?

The problem is, as you say, "the benefits outweigh the disadvantages". So, the US will continue to act this way until that statement gets less and less true. I'm not disagreeing with your premise, I just think your opinion would be a lot better served if you formulated your response to the actions against you in the proper way.

> The problem with the US immigration system is that none of the people suffering in it can vote to change it.

Your spot on with this comment. Until the people who are American citizens start suffering, you won't see any reform in this area. If you are actually serious about reform (and I hope you are, I believe it's needed) than you'll need a much more of a powerful argument than "I can't be inconvenienced at customs". Put some data together about how immigration is needed to create new jobs in America, and if those who are inconvenienced continue to be pushed away, then these jobs are a lot less likely to be created. Maybe it makes sense to create a sub-community of foreign entrepreneurs in the valley who all share your same thoughts?

Re: Another awesome US immigration experience

#88

Post by nandemo »

jimmaswell wrote: post #60
jacquesm wrote: post #18

As long as you feel the benefits outweigh the downsides the only person you can complain to is yourself. You're still going there aren't you? I've had an episode quite comparable to this one and it was the last time I visited the US. I don't bitch about it, I don't begrudge the border guards their jobs or attitude (I assume they get a lot of shit heaped on them every day, not an excuse for a non-professional attitude…

> Don't like US immigration? Good, don't emigrate to the US. Once enough people do this that it starts to affect the US GDP I'm sure there will be some change. Less immigrants would negatively affect the GDP? I've heard the opposite many times, but I'm not an economist. Why is that so?

Where did you hear the opposite? An increase in the number of low-skilled immigrants might negatively affect GDP per capita, but it's hard to see how it would negatively affect total GDP.

Re: Another awesome US immigration experience

#89

Post by mdasen »

jacquesm wrote: post #78
mdasen wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the argument you're making. From the perspective of the United States, they don't need to care unless it adversely affects the United States. As such, the US can make whatever immigration it wants and it writes its own destiny and people can take it or leave it much like many offerings we see in life from companies, other people, etc. If a company is putting onerous conditions on its product, we'll switc…

If you feel like levelling the playing field a bit with respect to your accidents of birth then I'm quite sure that those countries would be happy to strike you from their registers if you asked nicely. On the other hand, since you were given this for free and it wasn't your fault you might as well enjoy the privilege. Personally I think all immigration controls should be abolished. The world will be hell for about a…

I'm somewhat of the feeling of the second paragraph. However, in some ways it is happening in the EU. As the EU enlarges, it generally creates a larger area of free travel/work/residence. Heck, if the US and Canada opened up immigration 100%, there wouldn't be hell because the countries are pretty similar. Some might prefer Canada or the US, but it would likely be generally equivalent. In those cases, I guess I don't see the reason why controls are still strict. I think that's what the EU mitigates: as it expands to include countries as they attain a close enough level of development and other goals, movement/work/residence freedom doesn't mean mass chaos. If the EU, Aus, NZ, US, Can, Japan, and a few others offered open immigration between them, I don't think there would be a lot of chaos. So, it's genuinely possible to make significant progress from our current situation without the hell stage that complete abolition would involve.

Since I have the option to ask, I'm wondering if you see criticizing immigration policies as different from criticizing about anything else?

Re: Another awesome US immigration experience

#90

Post by grecy »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #44
zee007 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't either especially since I am not even bitter about the experience. I am just confused. The irony is that since then I've crossed the border 12+ times a year and the experience is always pleasant (now I enter as a Canadian citizen for either vacation or a short business trip). One would think they'd have preferred me when I paid taxes there (and by the virtue of being on visa, they knew a lot more about me).

As a US citizen, I, on the other hand, am extremely bitter and angry about these kinds of offenses. It makes me sick to my stomach and I really do believe every day is one day closer to me becoming an expat.

http://www.reddit.com/r/igotout
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