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Do We Really Need Another Smartphone OS?

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Re: Do We Really Need Another Smartphone OS?

#31

Post by green7ea »

ladzoppelin wrote: post #21

The phrase "A real linux OS phone" is pretty frustrating considering Android exists and is supposed to be "real Linux". What are the main reasons Android is not "real Linux"? (Its hard not to be upset with Google for this situation if the reason is what I think it is).

When people say Linux, they usually mean more than just the kernel. Stallman insists we call this GNU/Linux since a good portion of userspace comes for the GNU project. When people say 'real linux' I believe they are referring to the full userspace that usually accompanies the Linux kernel.

The userspace in Android is very different from the userspace in GNU/Linux. In GNU/Linux, it is very easy to program using your preferred programming language. This isn't the case in Android, everything is very tightly wrapped up around Dalvik. Before you mention the NDK, let me say that it's only a subset of C++ (no exceptions among other things). Ubuntu on the cell phone also opens up the possibility of things like shell scripting, local webservers, etc.

What this really comes down to is programming freedom that you can find in GNU/Linux that isn't found in Android. You will now have a full fledged computer in your pocket instead of a limited device.

Re: Do We Really Need Another Smartphone OS?

#32

Post by ttuominen »

ricardobeat wrote: post #24
madisp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understand it actually is a fork of Android in the sense that it runs the Android-flavoured Linux kernel.

Haven't they merged the "android kernel" into the linux kernel recently?

Many features, not all: https://lwn.net/Articles/514901/

Re: Do We Really Need Another Smartphone OS?

#34

Post by edwardy20 »

freeduck wrote: post #17
camus wrote: post #9

Do we really need competition ?

Of course we need competition. Android is a nice platform - I use it every day. But I also would very much like one or more vanilla GNU/Linux phone platforms. The Linux ecosystem has benefited a great deal from having multiple distros(fedora,debian,gentoo...) with each their own focus. As long as they will agree on some common standards like freedesktop.org - diversity is a win.

I believe he was being sarcastic.

Re: Do We Really Need Another Smartphone OS?

#35

Post by jamesjguthrie »

green7ea wrote: post #31
ladzoppelin wrote: post #21

The phrase "A real linux OS phone" is pretty frustrating considering Android exists and is supposed to be "real Linux". What are the main reasons Android is not "real Linux"? (Its hard not to be upset with Google for this situation if the reason is what I think it is).

When people say Linux, they usually mean more than just the kernel. Stallman insists we call this GNU/Linux since a good portion of userspace comes for the GNU project. When people say 'real linux' I believe they are referring to the full userspace that usually accompanies the Linux kernel. The userspace in Android is very different from the userspace in GNU/Linux. In GNU/Linux, it is very easy to program using your…

Ubuntu can run alongside/on top of Android. Is that still limited?

Re: Do We Really Need Another Smartphone OS?

#36

Post by gtufano »

slurry wrote: post #8
mtgx wrote: post #2

I'm interested in seeing Ubuntu getting a fair shot at the market. I don't know what to think about web-apps based operating systems like Firefox OS yet, but I think it will help Firefox, the browser, become more competitive from what they learn making the OS. I don't care as much about Tizen and Sailfish, but I'd rather see strong open source competitors standing up against Android and iOS, than more closed ones lik…

> I don't know what to think about web-apps based operating systems like Firefox OS yet, I think it is a mistake. A modern operating system, particularly on mobile where power management and security are concerns, needs a mature well-optimized managed code environment to write middleware and more complicated applications in - hence Objective-C with automatic reference counting on iOS and Java/Dalvik on Android. HTML5…

Objective-C is not "managed". iOS apps are sandboxed, but obj-c is very near to C (and most of the Foundation API are pure C). Also, ARC is not mandatory and there is no garbage collector on iOS.

Re: Do We Really Need Another Smartphone OS?

#37

Post by bergie »

moccajoghurt wrote: post #12

Wouldn't a real Linux OS on a smartphone be every developer's dream? I will definitely get a Ubuntu phone. Think about the the variety of options you'll have... However I am not sure if the mainstream market will be as interested.

The real Linux aspect is definitely something that many developers find appealing. I still meet a lot of hackers who couldn't think of using anything else than the ageing Nokia N900. Hardware keyboard, Debian packaging, root out of the box, ...

For this group something like Jolla's Sailfish (see http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/jolla-sailfish/) or Ubuntu Mobile will be very appealing options.

Disclaimer: I've worked with some of the people behind both Sailfish and Ubuntu Mobile back in the good old Maemo/MeeGo days.

Re: Do We Really Need Another Smartphone OS?

#38

Post by ricardobeat »

trimbo wrote: post #30
ricardobeat wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is not really open-source, you can only get source code for old versions, never the latest release.

4.2.1 is the current version and the source was available on the day it released.

Android.com only lists 4.1 as available. Either way, by only making source code available on the day of release it is by definition already old. That means development happens in the dark.

android was also deemed the least open of a bunch of high-profile open-source projects: http://www.visionmobile.com/rsc/researchreports/Open%20Gover...

Re: Do We Really Need Another Smartphone OS?

#39

Post by Kynlyn »

moccajoghurt wrote: post #12

Wouldn't a real Linux OS on a smartphone be every developer's dream? I will definitely get a Ubuntu phone. Think about the the variety of options you'll have... However I am not sure if the mainstream market will be as interested.

Developers are a small percentage of the overall market. Sure, we might think it's cool because it's running Ubuntu. But the vast majority of the population is going to look at it and say "How is this going to make my mobile experience better in a way that I don't already have from IOS or Android?"

I wish Canonical luck, but I just don't see my non-technical friends caring one whit about this phone unless it does something extraordinary that they can't get elsewhere. And I just don't see that happening.

Re: Do We Really Need Another Smartphone OS?

#40

Post by samstokes »

ttuominen wrote: post #10

I would absolutely love to see Ubuntu and others (Jolla) succeed. Unfortunately I'm also highly skeptical they will. The reason is that currently their marketing story seems so far removed from actual consumers: think about the fact that they're even trying to sell the idea of an operating system , not a complete product. This seems really backwards compared to the evidently successful Apple model. Granted, they are…

Ubuntu for phones is not (yet) a choice available to consumers. I assume their marketing is currently targeted at OEMs because that's who they need to convince first.

Hopefully when phones running Ubuntu are available on the market, they'll come up with a more compelling story for consumers.

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