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Dropped IE support for Instapaper

marco.org

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Re: Dropped IE support for Instapaper

#11

Post by feverishaaron »

noblethrasher wrote: post #9
kirse wrote: post #8

I despise websites that do this because I have to use IE7 at work. This is probably the second fastest way for me to banish your website from memory besides being spam. Everyone on here talks about making the sign-up process as easy as possible, and requiring someone to download and install an entirely new application is about as complex and uninviting as one can get. Us "technical" people are still people, and the m…

Yes, but it's not usually one bug. A bug here and a bug there and pretty soon you're talking about real money. IE7 isn't so bad but I'm seriously contemplating dropping support for IE6 very soon.

I estimate that supporting IE6 has added more than 30% of the interface development costs to the complex projects I have worked on that use a combination of sophisticated CSS and JS to get the job done. This is a HUGE cost for start-ups and for clients to swallow, once the true cost is explained to them.

Just supporting the way various sub-versions of IE6 inconsistently handle cookies is a nightmare, and in many cases lead to unsolvable issues. This costed a client of mine real $$$$ to discover, and less than 20% of their audience used IE6. Less than 15 people actually complained about the issue.

IE 7 isn't quite as bad, but it still adds a measure of time to front-end development efforts. I would estimate it in the range of 10-20%, depending on how complex the interface is.

On two recent projects, we dropped IE6 support, with virtually no push-back from a general-use audience. IE6 is almost 8 years old. Most people don't keep their cars that long, and can understand that an old crusty browser is not going to perform as well.

The only place where I would be hesitant to drop IE6 support is on marketing sites (where you need to entice someone to a call-to-action within the first 30sec-1min) and on e-commerce sites, where every dollar counts.

Re: Dropped IE support for Instapaper

#12

Post by noblethrasher »

mrtron wrote: post #10
noblethrasher wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it's not usually one bug. A bug here and a bug there and pretty soon you're talking about real money. IE7 isn't so bad but I'm seriously contemplating dropping support for IE6 very soon.

The 'fixes' aka hacks aren't that difficult. The problem is it makes everything so brittle and people tend to do things the shitty route just to support IE. Maybe it was the last changes to fix IE6...but I actually looked up browser percentages and considered dropping support.

IE + hacks, with respect to technical debt, is like one of those credit cards that offer 0% interest and free miles for the first 6 months after which it switches to a non-premium card with a 37% APR.

Re: Dropped IE support for Instapaper

#13

Post by eli »

amix wrote: post #5

I would not recommend this if you want your product to hit the average user - IE has the biggest market share (still :(). But of course, for Instpaper it's perfectly right to do so since the market is power-users and they mostly us FF (as the author notes).

I can tell you with some authority that if you're targeting corporate users, about 2/3 of the traffic is internet explorer. Worse is that about 40% of that IE traffic is IE6.

Re: Dropped IE support for Instapaper

#14

Post by oneplusone »

I have done extensive front-end coding on a variety of projects and have come to a single conclusion: professional programmers don't get CSS. CSS is not "rational" like a regular programming language. Often the way CSS properties interact with each otehr has to be learned through trial and error. For example, if you set a object to display as a block and float it to the left it is not actually a block element any more, it is an inline-block. Doesn't matter if firebug tells you it is a block level element. This causes lots of pain and misery when it comes to understanding CSS.

However, once you do understand CSS browser discrepancies really become a minor annoyance at most. You code pixel perfection in one browser, and ensure all the other browsers don't go too far off course. The only exception is IE6, and for that you can use something like http://code.google.com/p/ie7-js/ to "upgrade" it.

There is really only one feature I wish Microsoft would add. The CSS property Opacity should apply to form fields as well.

Re: Dropped IE support for Instapaper

#15

Post by rm999 »

This article seems like an excuse to criticize IE. "Instapaper is severely degraded in this browser" is fine. "... because IE does not support basic web standards" comes off as catty.

I understand the frustration that IE isn't fully compatible, but as engineers it's not our job to change the world to suit our own needs; we shouldn't be converting users to a different architecture or web browser.

IMO, 10% is a lot of users - perhaps, silently degrading the experience is better than potentially offending people that have to use IE for whatever reason. When I have to use IE, the last thing I want is an application or webpage rubbing it in my face.

Re: Dropped IE support for Instapaper

#17

Post by dcurtis »

amix wrote: post #5

I would not recommend this if you want your product to hit the average user - IE has the biggest market share (still :(). But of course, for Instpaper it's perfectly right to do so since the market is power-users and they mostly us FF (as the author notes).

For those who are curious, here's the browser makeup of Hacker News traffic to all of my articles that have been on the front page here:

http://dustincurtis.com/screenshots/Browsers_-_Google_Analyt...

Re: Dropped IE support for Instapaper

#18

Post by JacobAldridge »

vaksel wrote: post #16

It seems like most of IE is installed on corporate machines. Now answer me this, what kind of IT Administrator doesn't realize the advantages to installing firefox?

"You don't get fired buying IBM"

Keeping / installing IE is the default option for most corporates. Change is difficult. IT Admins struggle for respect in many cases, and know that fighting over IE or FF means wasting ammunition they need on more important projects.

Re: Dropped IE support for Instapaper

#19

Post by ciscoriordan »

dcurtis wrote: post #17
amix wrote: post #5

I would not recommend this if you want your product to hit the average user - IE has the biggest market share (still :(). But of course, for Instpaper it's perfectly right to do so since the market is power-users and they mostly us FF (as the author notes).

For those who are curious, here's the browser makeup of Hacker News traffic to all of my articles that have been on the front page here: http://dustincurtis.com/screenshots/Browsers_-_Google_Analyt...

Does iPhone's Safari get categorized under Safari in that chart? If yes, you might want to separate it.

Re: Dropped IE support for Instapaper

#20

Post by jhy »

That all makes good sense for an app built by a single developer and a specific demographic. He's cutting 10% of his potential market and probably saving 80% of front-end dev time. Seems like a good tradeoff.
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