Live data from Hacker News

America's Real Criminal Element: Lead

motherjones.com

91–100 of 201 posts

Re: America's Real Criminal Element: Lead

#91
post #69

It's scary to think that the transition to unleaded aviation fuel, or avgas, only began a couple years ago, and is scheduled for 2018 [0]. Currently, Avgas, which is different than jet fuel in that it's mainly used by private single-engine planes (ICE instead of turbine), can still contain up to 2.12 grams of lead per gallon [1]. Surprisingly, this 2.12 grams of lead/gal is termed 100LL, for 100-octane "low-lead". Up…

The article says that lead in aviation fuels (and in solder) is a far smaller contribution to current lead levels than remaining lead paint. In the grand scheme of things, there just isn't that much avgas used, and it gets dispersed widely as opposed to concentrated where people live.

I think the real problem is the big aviation piston engine companies (e.g. Lycoming and Continental) that seem to have no incentive to develop modern engines that can run on unleaded fuel. Newer engine manufacturers (e.g. Rotax, Jabiru) run fine on auto fuel, but they have a much smaller market. (It's sort of ironic that users of those engines, who should not be run on leaded gas, have a hard time finding unleaded gas at airports in the US.)

Re: America's Real Criminal Element: Lead

#92
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I sue you if all you have to do is say "no thanks, not playing, fuck off"? Sure, some theoretical bs about how you're not playing the arbitration game may result in longer term loss of business etc, but isn't me hurting you (via badmouthing your business, causing others to refuse to enter agreement etc) for not compensating me via arbitration merely me enacting violence on you?

The simple answer is private insurance. More detailed answers can be found in all sorts of essays, books, and propositions regarding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycentric_law .

So then the insurance company becomes the government. (Insurance companies will merge until there is a single one... if the history of companies is to be believed).

Or the insurance company also just says "No I don't like you, and since there is no actual way for you to enforce me paying you out, I just won't". Again, if the insurance company decides not to pay, they are enacting bad things on someone and not honoring an agreement. Fortunately since they have lots of free money and no expenses (other than those required to manipulate perception -- cheap payouts etc), they can just have their newspaper buddies out-shout anyone else and not actually be harmed by bad practices.

Re: America's Real Criminal Element: Lead

#93
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ayn Rand thought the role of government was to protect individuals from initiating force against one another. Period. If you poison the air in a way that harms someone, that constitutes initiation of force. She called the economic and political system resulting from this "laissez-faire capitalism," or more commonly just "capitalism." In context of the partial quote you gave, "unregulated" means "without economic regu…

Reconcile your weird semantics of "laws" and "regulation" with the constant screams of "oh no regulation" every time there is an attempt to pass laws preventing harm to people?

There are no semantic oddities. It's just that "regulation" is context dependent, even in everyday English.

When people scream "oh no regulation," they mean "no rights-violating/improper laws," but there are other cases where "regulation" just means "laws."

It's not as if Rand claimed to be "against regulation" and left it as that, which would be pointless and sloppy.

In talking about politics, as elsewhere, she was extremely precise: the point of the government is to protect the individual from the initiation of force.

Force is also well-defined in her work, and it includes poisoning someone.

Re: America's Real Criminal Element: Lead

#94
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Private litigation' is my new favorite oxymoron. Litigation cannot exist without your so-called 'conflict resolvers'.

That is false, and I don't understand why you think conflict resolution works better when it is violent and compulsory.

Declaring it false does not make it so.

Violence is always a specter (a potential action) in any conflict between people. The question is; How do we minimize the role of violence in coming to resolutions to conflicts? I think the rules we've evolved to answer that question of the course of human history have done a decent job.

Do you have a different set of rules that you think would better optimize this minimization problem? I'd love to hear it.

Re: America's Real Criminal Element: Lead

#95
post #21

The Romans used to use lead acetate, i.e. sugar of lead as a sweetener. I wonder how much of history can be explained by this use of lead.

I've heard it was also used to waterproof wineskins, which would let the lead leach into the wine due to the acidity.

Re: America's Real Criminal Element: Lead

#96
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple answer is private insurance. More detailed answers can be found in all sorts of essays, books, and propositions regarding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycentric_law .

So then the insurance company becomes the government. (Insurance companies will merge until there is a single one... if the history of companies is to be believed). Or the insurance company also just says "No I don't like you, and since there is no actual way for you to enforce me paying you out, I just won't". Again, if the insurance company decides not to pay, they are enacting bad things on someone and not honorin…

> So then the insurance company becomes the government.

Why? Retail stores don't become the government or merge into one. Neither do private security agencies. It's unlikely that any organization could "become the government" unless a vast portion of society accepts them as the sole legitimate purveyor of violence, which is precisely what I don't want to happen.

> Or the insurance company also just says "No I don't like you, and since there is no actual way for you to enforce me paying you out, I just won't".

Then what would you do? Personally, I would stop paying them (and probably switch to another insurance company), and I suspect a vast majority of their customers would do the same thing, and probably long before it got to the point where it "became the government."

The only ways for a private insurance company in a free society to remain dominant while consistently not honoring their agreements would be if society as a whole didn't care about the agreements being honored (which seems unlikely), if they gather enough power to physically oppress an entire region (which also seems unlikely these days, since very few governments are even able or willing to pull that off), or if they convince society that they should be allowed to have a monopoly on violence. That last one is a pretty good definition of "becoming a government," and it's certainly possible, but the whole argument I'm making is that society should not recognize any organization as having a monopoly on violence.

Re: America's Real Criminal Element: Lead

#97
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I sue you if all you have to do is say "no thanks, not playing, fuck off"? Sure, some theoretical bs about how you're not playing the arbitration game may result in longer term loss of business etc, but isn't me hurting you (via badmouthing your business, causing others to refuse to enter agreement etc) for not compensating me via arbitration merely me enacting violence on you?

The simple answer is private insurance. More detailed answers can be found in all sorts of essays, books, and propositions regarding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycentric_law .

What can private insurance do for me if I am killed?

What if I can't afford private insurance? What if I am not allowed private insurance?

Seems like decrying a 'monopoly of violence' and replacing it with a 'vibrant violence marketplace' is quite a few steps in the wrong direction.

Re: America's Real Criminal Element: Lead

#98
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I may ask a second question: what do you think of emissions trading as a solution instead of bans on specific sources like leaded gasoline?

I have yet to understand how an emissions trading system is superior to a simple tax paid on all emissions. Trading schemes add a lot of unnecessary complexity and potential for abuse, and enshrine the idea that if you have polluted more in the past, you deserve to keep polluting more in the future. If your business model requires you to cost the society more in pollution than the value of your product, you should no…

> I have yet to understand how an emissions trading system is superior to a simple tax paid on all emissions.

They're more similar than you seem to think. Both internalize cost to the production of pollution. In a tax, the cost is fixed and the total amount of pollution is market-determined. With a cap it is the reverse. However, at the point where the prices agree, they are, in principle, equivalent.

> Trading schemes add a lot of unnecessary complexity and potential for abuse, and enshrine the idea that if you have polluted more in the past, you deserve to keep polluting more in the future.

Allocating pollution licenses to past polluters is only one possible way of distributing them. A cap-and-trade system could also to hold yearly auctions for each year's permits. The former is used many times in part because incumbents are less likely to oppose regulation. They may even be able to achieve efficiencies and sell their allocated permits at a profit because of cap-and-trade. But note that even though the incumbents are receiving the permits for free, they still have an incentive to reduce pollution when the cost of the efficiency is less than the cost of the permit.

> Instead just quantify the total harm caused by emissions the best you can, divide by total emissions amounts, and levy that as a tax per pound of emission.

Two problems is that the harm may be difficult to quantify in a price and more importantly the harm may not be linear in the amount of pollution. You could argue that the optimal solution would be for the government to estimate the harm as a function of the amount of pollution and hold some sort of complicated auction where the price depended on the quantity of pollution permits sold. However, I think this is too impractical for any real-world regulation.

Re: America's Real Criminal Element: Lead

#99
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is false, and I don't understand why you think conflict resolution works better when it is violent and compulsory.

Declaring it false does not make it so. Violence is always a specter (a potential action) in any conflict between people. The question is; How do we minimize the role of violence in coming to resolutions to conflicts? I think the rules we've evolved to answer that question of the course of human history have done a decent job. Do you have a different set of rules that you think would better optimize this minimization…

> I'd love to hear it.

And sadly you are dealing with a Libertarian and you will.

Re: America's Real Criminal Element: Lead

#100
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private litigation ALSO has a nation-wide bureaucracy with an immense army of "conflict resolvers", and is often so inefficient that the litigation itself if often used by powerful corporations as a means of harassing their enemies. We need massive legal simplification, I agree, but that doesn't necessarily mean just moving to private litigation and being done with it.

Some private litigation firms will probably always be bloated and inefficient, but that's just great news to their competitors. It's no different than private retail stores: some are inefficient, but the more efficient ones tend to do better (or pressure the inefficient ones to improve).

Please direct me to these efficient lawyers. I think everyone in the world would like to become their customer.

It's pretty clear to me that you have never been involved with "private litigation".

Post reply on HN