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Do people really want to look at multiple windows at once?

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Re: Do people really want to look at multiple windows at once?

#41

Post by progrock »

vidarh wrote: post #33
dimitar wrote: post #30

I think going back historically, overlapping windows appeared on PCs around the same time as VGA (more powerfull platforms had them earlier). The early apps didn't have so many features (and menus) and often had to work together often so it made sense to have them side by side and not to bother closing them to open them again in a few seconds. Now, it depends on the screen (resolution). Isn't it pointless to maximize…

I maximize even on large screens because I like to remove the clutter for focus more than because I need the space. I don't want to have a chat window or terminal or anything else distracting me when I read or write something, for example.

So if you used workspaces, you could have an active workspace, and just move the application that you want to focus on into that workspace. Then it wouldn't matter if it was full screen or not. It could be your distraction free workspace.

Re: Do people really want to look at multiple windows at once?

#42

Post by progrock »

interpol_p wrote: post #35

Seeing multiple windows at once reminds you that those windows exist and can be interacted with. It's the out of sight, out of mind thing. People like multiple windows not because they interact with them or read them simultaneously, but because they remind you of what you are working on and what needs your attention. Single-window workflows work great on tablets and phones, but when you have a large monitor it's not…

Good point about visual reminders. Probably why I end up using tabs instead of bookmarks, and because the bookmark UI in browsers is poor.

Re: Do people really want to look at multiple windows at once?

#43

Post by dredmorbius »

dimitar wrote: post #30

I think going back historically, overlapping windows appeared on PCs around the same time as VGA (more powerfull platforms had them earlier). The early apps didn't have so many features (and menus) and often had to work together often so it made sense to have them side by side and not to bother closing them to open them again in a few seconds. Now, it depends on the screen (resolution). Isn't it pointless to maximize…

Desqview had this prior to Windows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwYWt-3gElw First released in 1985 (with "Desq" preceding it in 1984).

For a while there was a windowing environment "twin" (Textmode WINdowing environment) available in some distros which behaved somewhat similarly visually. Looks as if the project's still alive on Sourceforge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/twin/

It can be somewhat useful on XVGA consoles with framebuffer enabled.

Re: Do people really want to look at multiple windows at once?

#45

Post by 89a »

PeterisP wrote: post #11

Disregard powerusers - think about office tasks for simple non-tech people that need multiple applications for a single logical task. For example, a common scenario of needing reference material while doing or creating something: Project manager writing a budget estimate (excel or email) while repeatedly looking at a project proposal (word or pdf). Secretary discussing a meeting schedule (email, skype) while looking…

If they're qualified for the job can't they just learn how to use the already rather basic tools properly?

Not much to ask, if they can't figure that out then maybe they don't deserve a job at all

Re: Do people really want to look at multiple windows at once?

#46

Post by laserDinosaur »

bloaf wrote: post #37
PeterisP wrote: post #11

Disregard powerusers - think about office tasks for simple non-tech people that need multiple applications for a single logical task. For example, a common scenario of needing reference material while doing or creating something: Project manager writing a budget estimate (excel or email) while repeatedly looking at a project proposal (word or pdf). Secretary discussing a meeting schedule (email, skype) while looking…

I would argue that if there is an advantage to having more than one monitor, then there is an advantage to having at least that many software windows. A sufficiently large monitor could then emulate a multiple-monitor setup.

Assuming you own or have the space for a second monitor.

Re: Do people really want to look at multiple windows at once?

#47

Post by vidarh »

progrock wrote: post #41
vidarh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I maximize even on large screens because I like to remove the clutter for focus more than because I need the space. I don't want to have a chat window or terminal or anything else distracting me when I read or write something, for example.

So if you used workspaces, you could have an active workspace, and just move the application that you want to focus on into that workspace. Then it wouldn't matter if it was full screen or not. It could be your distraction free workspace.

I do use workspaces. And I maximize the applications because when they're the only one on the workspace I rarely have a reason not to have them fill the screen.

Re: Do people really want to look at multiple windows at once?

#48

Post by progrock »

vidarh wrote: post #47
progrock wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if you used workspaces, you could have an active workspace, and just move the application that you want to focus on into that workspace. Then it wouldn't matter if it was full screen or not. It could be your distraction free workspace.

I do use workspaces. And I maximize the applications because when they're the only one on the workspace I rarely have a reason not to have them fill the screen.

I guess that's down to personal preference. I feel that some applications just don't suit full screen.

Re: Do people really want to look at multiple windows at once?

#49

Post by keithpeter »

vidarh wrote: post #32
keithpeter wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" I'm 95% of the way back there now, with Ubuntu with Unity (even got the global menu bar back - yay!), but there are still annoying niggles in my workflow.. " What you describe sounds very like the way I use dwm/dmenu (suckless tools on Linux) on a small screen. Each application has its own 'tab' (workspace in dwm), those are the private screens. Your 'public' screens sound like the dwm behaviour where you can 'merg…

Yes, sounds similar. On the Amiga, all screens can have a backdrop window + floating windows. The backdrop is usually provided by the app that opens the screen, but not always. On public screens you'd usually only use floating windows, but there's no real reason why you couldn't ut backdrop windows there too. No tiling support, though. I was actually planning on installing dwm or another tiling window manager until I…

The 'hit windows key and type' in Unity reminds me of the dmenu system in a dwm based desktop. There are links around with Unity2d (the QT based version of Unity supported up to and including 12.04) and xmonad. I've not tried those. Unity 3d is basically a compiz plug-in, and so compiz is the window manager.

On my bog standard cheap 1080p monitor, I quite like the dwm main left and right stack tiling behaviour. Focus follows mouse with keyboard shortcuts for cycling focus. Mod-m brings the currently focussed window into 'monacle' mode, i.e. full screen. Mod-t sends the window back to its original tiled position.

Warning: trying out the dwm/dmenu repo package on 12.04 with Unity lead to problems with incompatible .desktop files, so odd behaviour in a dwm session with no obvious way back to log-in window. I had to stop X, use a tty to uninstall dwm and then got back to Unity. I've not fiddled around to find what the problem was. May have been sorted now.

Nice to have all this choice isn't it?

Re: Do people really want to look at multiple windows at once?

#50

Post by PeterisP »

cfn wrote: post #31
PeterisP wrote: post #11

Disregard powerusers - think about office tasks for simple non-tech people that need multiple applications for a single logical task. For example, a common scenario of needing reference material while doing or creating something: Project manager writing a budget estimate (excel or email) while repeatedly looking at a project proposal (word or pdf). Secretary discussing a meeting schedule (email, skype) while looking…

I think you are right in a general way but giving two screens to average office users may not have those results right away. Two screens increase the cognitive load and require some skills that most people in that setting do not possess. This means that they may need some training before the increase in productivity appears. This is based on my anedoctal experience so YMMV.

Sure, there is some hassle with multiple screens. However, you can easily buy office monitors which are, in effect, two full-sized portrait pages (A4 or letter) next to each other.

So a natural use case is to edit a full page document on one side, and have another full page document next to it that you can read or reference.

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