Fitbit, why can’t I have my data? • Hacker News Board

Re: Fitbit, why can’t I have my data?

#31

Post by rmc » Thu, Jan 03, 2013, 11:52 AM UTC

dawson wrote: post #14

randomchars wrote: post #12

If you live in the EU you can send them a data access request, which means they have to provide you with all your personally identifiable information that they keep, in this case that means pretty much everything. I hate it when companies think that they can get away with making you pay for your data.

I have always been curious about this, from a healthcare perspective. For example, we encrypt PID information one way (the patient has their own unique data access key, which is then encrypted with their password + salt and some 'other stuff'), so we couldn't hand over any information if a data access request was made, even if we wanted to as we don't have access to that information ourselves!

That sounds like no problem at all. You (the company) only have to hand over data you have. If you have no data, then you have nothing to hand over.

Re: Fitbit, why can’t I have my data?

#32

Post by rmc » Thu, Jan 03, 2013, 11:54 AM UTC

randomchars wrote: post #12

If you live in the EU you can send them a data access request, which means they have to provide you with all your personally identifiable information that they keep, in this case that means pretty much everything. I hate it when companies think that they can get away with making you pay for your data.

This is only really useful if the company is in the EU. If they aren't then they aren't bound by that law. After all, there is nothing your local Data Protection Commissioner / courts can do to them to make them comply.

From looking around the FitBit site, it seems they are in California, so Californian law applies. No EU Data Protection Directive there I'm afraid. (If they were in EU their terms & conditions would probably not be binding anyway, against the EU Unfair Terms & Conditions Directive)

Re: Fitbit, why can’t I have my data?

#33

Post by heyitsnick » Thu, Jan 03, 2013, 12:02 PM UTC

jessedhillon wrote: post #27

The Bodymedia FIT, in addition to being a superior device overall(1), has an API which let's you access caloric burn and other data up to single minute detail levels. If you Google around, there are some blog posts describing how to dump data from it using standard USB serial port drivers. API webpage: https://developer.bodymedia.com/docs/read/Home 1- The Bodymedia gives you steps taken as well as accurate sleep and…

Could you explain a bit more when Bodymedia FIT is superior? The FitBit One and Ultra tracks steps taken, floors climbed, and sleep efficiency, and tells you calories burned and distance travelled (the latter two i assume just simply calculated from the raw data collected; you can input your weight and stride length on the site).

Re: Fitbit, why can’t I have my data?

#34

Post by heyitsnick » Thu, Jan 03, 2013, 12:04 PM UTC

senthilnayagam wrote: post #21

I like fitbit, it is inspiring me daily to go for my workout. Minute by minute data can be very useful for custom visualization. I have found a few bugs in fitbit, like I change my daily targets, but weekly targets dont change. Also, fitbit free app is not available in Indian App Store. I dont want to create a US apple account to just use this app. If open data access is available, I would be inclined to but a Aria a…

> like I change my daily targets, but weekly targets dont change.

fwiw I think that is by design; the two things are independent. e.g. you may wish to set a minimum 10k steps a day, but a weekly goal of 100k (or whatever). It's a bit confusing because it sets you up defaults for both day and week where week=7xDay, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Re: Fitbit, why can’t I have my data?

#35

Post by heyitsnick » Thu, Jan 03, 2013, 12:06 PM UTC

biturd wrote: post #19

Why do we need an actual hardware device to get to this data? Don't iPhones and Androids and others have all the internals needed to get the same data, and more, such as altitude, so you can check the incline you are against etc.

I think for lots of people, they don't want carry their expensive smart-phones with them when they exercise. I'm also always forgetting it, don't charge it, etc. These new devices are so small you can basically wear it all day and forget about it.

Re: Fitbit, why can’t I have my data?

#36

Post by heyitsnick » Thu, Jan 03, 2013, 12:10 PM UTC

I'm a huge fan of the entire Fitbit product; the hardware is a joy to use, it has great apps for desktop and Android, sync is a breeze, the web app works very well; the whole process has been excellent.

However, having spent close to €300 with the company (for the scale + ultra, and recently upgraded to the Fitbit One), i was very disappointed when I found out about their data policy. Having to pay a premium 50/pa to get access to my own data (it's one of the big 'upsells' of premium) leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.,And now learning that even this doesn't give you access to your raw data is even worse.

I hope Fitbit changes their approach; if anything I think they have it backwards: give me my data for free when I purchase your hardware for life, and upsell me the web app (i'd be happy to pay for it; maybe include the first year free with your hardware purchase); rather this than than give you a pretty complete web app for life for free to record everything i want, but and then charge me to read back my own data!

Re: Fitbit, why can’t I have my data?

#37

Post by omh » Thu, Jan 03, 2013, 12:11 PM UTC

rmc wrote: post #32

randomchars wrote: post #12

If you live in the EU you can send them a data access request, which means they have to provide you with all your personally identifiable information that they keep, in this case that means pretty much everything. I hate it when companies think that they can get away with making you pay for your data.

This is only really useful if the company is in the EU. If they aren't then they aren't bound by that law. After all, there is nothing your local Data Protection Commissioner / courts can do to them to make them comply. From looking around the FitBit site, it seems they are in California, so Californian law applies. No EU Data Protection Directive there I'm afraid. (If they were in EU their terms & conditions would p…

Their Privacy Policy[1] says that they're a member of the Safe Harbor scheme - which is supposed to provide "equivalent" protection for exported data. It includes the principle that users should have access to their information, albeit with a significant caveat:

Individuals must have access to personal information about them that an organization holds and be able to correct, amend, or delete that information where it is inaccurate, except where the burden or expense of providing access would be disproportionate to the risks to the individual's privacy in the case in question, or where the rights of persons other than the individual would be violated

It would be interesting to send them a request and see what their position is.

[1] http://www.fitbit.com/uk/privacy

Re: Fitbit, why can’t I have my data?

#38

Post by darklajid » Thu, Jan 03, 2013, 12:14 PM UTC

My pet peeve:

I wanted to know what fitbit is, but the site redirects me to fitbit.com/de and I closed that site.

How can they be open about data, if they have obviously no clue about open standards, like http accept headers? Worse, there's no way to visit the (official?) fitbit.com site even after that idiotic redirect. I can't access an english version, period. Stupid.

Re: Fitbit, why can’t I have my data?

#39

Post by ig1 » Thu, Jan 03, 2013, 12:43 PM UTC

darklajid wrote: post #38

My pet peeve: I wanted to know what fitbit is, but the site redirects me to fitbit.com/de and I closed that site. How can they be open about data, if they have obviously no clue about open standards, like http accept headers? Worse, there's no way to visit the (official?) fitbit.com site even after that idiotic redirect. I can't access an english version, period. Stupid.

There's a logical flaw in your reasoning "doesn't http accept headers" doesn't imply anything about their understanding of open standards.

While it's perfectly understandable that you might be upset that their site for Germany doesn't offer english language as an option, that's clearly a completely separate issue from how they handle user data.

Re: Fitbit, why can’t I have my data?

#40

Post by alexkus » Thu, Jan 03, 2013, 12:52 PM UTC

nodata wrote: post #5

Just wait until a large health insurance company buys Fitbit (or Withings, or Garmin) - they will have your data.

I have various Garmins (Forerunner 405 for running and Edge 705 for cycling). None of my data goes to Garmin as I just use Garmin Training Centre and don't upload anything to Garmin Connect.