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How To Lose Weight And Influence People

mikealrogers.com

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Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#61

Post by thorofasgaard »

mipapage wrote: post #58
jacques_chester wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My overarching theme in my blog post is that the underlying complexity (which absolutely exists) is utterly optional for actually controlling weight. You just don't need to know it or understand it. Eat less --> weigh less and Eat more --> weigh more Are sufficiently good that you can form a working control system with them. No other variables need be observed or cared about.

I have to say that has not been my experience. I've been keto a few times and have been now for maybe 6 weeks. By far my longest run at it. I dropped 7kgs and at the moment your rules as above do not apply. I can eat more total calories (as fat) than when not keto-eating (i.e. more calories from carbs) and have no weight gain. When I up the carbs (>50g/day) I get the water gain, and presumably if I increased the carb…

Keep, and then post, a log of everything you eat (quantities as well as contents) - dollars to bacon-laden donuts, you're eating at a deficit.

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#62

Post by jacques_chester »

gtt wrote: post #60
MDS100 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, you are just burning a bunch of done-to-death straw men. (esp. the common "only thing" vs. "most important") Obviously the effects will be different. But the first and most important (!) factor for body composition and fatness is still caloric balance. As confirmed by a vast amount of experimental data in real humans under controlled conditions. Which is Jacques Point. Macronutrients (as well as micronutrie…

>>As confirmed by a vast amount of experimental data in real humans under controlled conditions. Could you please cite an actual studies?

The big kahuna was the Minnesota Starvation Experiment.

They starved their subjects.

For months.

Spoiler alert: all subjects lost weight.

(bonus lulz, they lost weight on a high-carb diet)

Otherwise, have fun reading up on "metabolic wards" and "supervised fasts" on PubMed.

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#63

Post by sgift »

jacques_chester wrote: post #50
lookACamel wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Eat more --> weight more" HOW much more? ( HOW much less.) Lizzie Velasquez trivially demonstrates the inadequacy of your observations.

If I had a reliable method for producing accurate and precise numerical forecasts of the future behaviour of complex systems with a large number of unobservable variables, then I would be a multi-quintillionaire. This doesn't mean that weather forecasting, economics, agile software methodologies -- to pick just a few famous examples of subjects dealing with complex systems -- are totally broken tools that must hencef…

> This doesn't mean that weather forecasting, economics, agile software methodologies -- to pick just a few famous examples of subjects dealing with complex systems -- are totally broken tools that must henceforth be discarded.

Not that I want to ridicule you here, but it is interesting that two of your three examples fucked up so bad at various times we WOULD be better off if we discarded them (or even better: Send them back to research until they provide reliable results) - economics and weather forecasting. For the third one the bets are still open.

For the general case/dieting: The observation that a net calorie deficit always leads to weight loss seems correct. The observation that you can always induce such a deficit is also correct. Using this knowledge to state "eat less, you will lose weight" leads to what I call the "dumb and proven way" - It will work(1), but your body will(2) fight you tooth and nail at every step, i.e. your body will do everything to reduce the net deficit. The open question: Is there a way to get a comparable/bigger net deficit without fighting your body? Keto, paleo and whatever try to provide an answer. For me, they fall into the agile software methodologies category: There may be benefits. Or not.

(1) It will work if you can stay with it, which is unrealistic for many cases, but people still like the "idea".

(2) Some bodies fight hard, some not. That's life.

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#64

Post by mipapage »

thorofasgaard wrote: post #61
mipapage wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say that has not been my experience. I've been keto a few times and have been now for maybe 6 weeks. By far my longest run at it. I dropped 7kgs and at the moment your rules as above do not apply. I can eat more total calories (as fat) than when not keto-eating (i.e. more calories from carbs) and have no weight gain. When I up the carbs (>50g/day) I get the water gain, and presumably if I increased the carb…

Keep, and then post, a log of everything you eat (quantities as well as contents) - dollars to bacon-laden donuts, you're eating at a deficit.

Interesting proposal, but I'm not sure I have the time for that. I have to think though, that the two avocados and 750 calorie bag of macadamia nuts alone have me at 1100.

Perhaps I'll fire up my daily burn account again and get to it. Part of the fun of this was that I have been able to eat when I felt I needed it and not worry about counting...

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#65

Post by kyberias »

jacques_chester wrote: post #30
kyberias wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that you can eat three times more than your friend. In fact, that is impossible. Please provide us with some real numbers and data.

If I may generalise most offensively, people in prosperous societies have basically no freaking idea how much they are eating (or not eating, as the case may be). Eg: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7869932 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2082216 I remember talking to a (rake-thin) cousin of mine about this when we went to dinner one night. "I eat as much as anyone", he protested. Later in the evening, noticed…

Exactly, thank you very much.

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#66

Post by fingerprinter »

MDS100 wrote: post #55
fingerprinter wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't reply to your comment below b/c it is too many deep. I'll do that here and add some comments. Net calories is fine if your only goal is "don't be a fatass". If, however, you are an athlete, lift weights or want something more, net calories don't tell you much. There are some easy experiments. ===================================== Let's assume 2000 cals daily is a supposed 300 cal deficit for someone. Let's as…

Honestly, you are just burning a bunch of done-to-death straw men. (esp. the common "only thing" vs. "most important") Obviously the effects will be different. But the first and most important (!) factor for body composition and fatness is still caloric balance. As confirmed by a vast amount of experimental data in real humans under controlled conditions. Which is Jacques Point. Macronutrients (as well as micronutrie…

Except they aren't strawmen, those are his actual arguments: the only thing that matters is net calories.

Overall calories matter as a piece in the puzzle, and if he said that or even said they are the foundation, he would be right. he didn't. He said only thing that matters is net calorie intake.

You said 'most important'. Congrats! You aren't building strawmen.

And that is KNOWN to not be the case. There are many other elements at play. You as a fitness professional would know this. The type of workout, the type and timing of cardio (if any), the macronutrient ratios inline with your goals. As I said, if the only thing you care about is 'not being a fatass' and the number on the scale is end-all-be-all, calories are probably fine. Though, if you want some size, or definition, or abs, or performance, or any number of other things, calories don't tell the whole story.

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#67

Post by wlievens »

jacques_chester wrote: post #18
jiffyjeff wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Hacker's Diet hinges on: ((calories in) - (calories out)) / 3500 = (l lb of weight loss) The Hacker's Diet holds as an axiom that calories from fat, carbohydrate and protein are equivalent in this formula. This assumption neglects the powerful influence of the hormone insulin, which plays a key role in regulating fat metabolism. Insulin release is very highly correlated with carbohydrate consumption, and a diet t…

This sounds awfully ... Taubesy . Problems with the Taubes' it's-all-carbs-and-insulin hypothesis: * Protein consumption causes insulin spikes too. * Insulin is not the only hormone involved in weight control system and energy system behaviour. Also involved: leptin, ghrelin, glucagon, cortisol and probably dozens of others neither of us will hear of in our entire lifetimes. * Population obesity closely tracks calori…

How about the argument that higher sugar intake causes you to be more hungry, therefore making it easier to eat less calories on a low suger (high-fat) diet. I know it's an entirely different argument from the "keto magic" argument you are ranting against, but do you object to it?

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#68

Post by wlievens »

Peroni wrote: post #42
forgottenpaswrd wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm over 6,7, or as a European 2m height, and 90kilos. Being tall means you could weigh more and be healthy, and it depends on your body structure, like bones and so. But probably you need someone else and not you to judge what is your ideal weight. "I can maintain focus at a consistently high level throughout my typical 14 hour work day" I have yet to see a person that really works 10 h/d, let alone 14 hours a day,…

Start thinking that you are in a hole and you need to get out of it and your life will be better when you get out(if its so good it will be even better). I think you missed my entire point. I've been heavier. I'm already losing weight. I don't consider myself to be 'in a hole'. I consider myself to have an affliction that's easily cured with a bit of discipline.

A healthier attitude than the "stuck in a hole" one, I would think.

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#69

Post by MDS100 »

fingerprinter wrote: post #66
MDS100 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, you are just burning a bunch of done-to-death straw men. (esp. the common "only thing" vs. "most important") Obviously the effects will be different. But the first and most important (!) factor for body composition and fatness is still caloric balance. As confirmed by a vast amount of experimental data in real humans under controlled conditions. Which is Jacques Point. Macronutrients (as well as micronutrie…

Except they aren't strawmen, those are his actual arguments: the only thing that matters is net calories. Overall calories matter as a piece in the puzzle, and if he said that or even said they are the foundation, he would be right. he didn't. He said only thing that matters is net calorie intake. You said 'most important'. Congrats! You aren't building strawmen. And that is KNOWN to not be the case. There are many o…

"All the matters is: can you impose a long term deficit? Whether by paleo, keto or any other dietary method, the sole long term determinant of average body mass is net caloric balance." Average body mass (!), not body composition etc. You need to actually read his assertion. He is completely right.

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#70

Post by MDS100 »

gtt wrote: post #59
fingerprinter wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't reply to your comment below b/c it is too many deep. I'll do that here and add some comments. Net calories is fine if your only goal is "don't be a fatass". If, however, you are an athlete, lift weights or want something more, net calories don't tell you much. There are some easy experiments. ===================================== Let's assume 2000 cals daily is a supposed 300 cal deficit for someone. Let's as…

It is very interesting but can you point to the research which validates your points? Also is eat-less diet supported by some research?

Yes. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17413101 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1989409 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1734671 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8968851

Also: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/899S.long

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