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Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

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Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#371

Post by lutorm »

tolmasky wrote: post #316
Kylekramer wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty weak argument for Celsius. Why should people care that the boiling and freezing points are simple? That is almost irrelevant for the most common uses of temperature reporting. People care about the ambient outside temperature (which Fahrenheit seems optimized for), not the effect it has on the state of one particular compound.

Yeah, never understood the "problem" with Fahrenheit. When I ask people to tell me why Celsius is better, many will tell me because its "decimal", and then I point out to them it is no more decimal than Fahrenheit, there are no "kilodegrees". They will then point out the water freezing/boiling, as if they regularly have to set that temperature to accomplish that (you don't, you just put water in the freezer or a kett…

It's "better" because it's just an offset Kelvin scale. So when you're doing delta calculations, there's no difference. And really, most temperature calculations are relative.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#372

Post by DannyBee »

jacquesm wrote: post #348
DannyBee wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of cars, roughly every power tool, piece of electronics, cabinet (35mm), etc needs metric sockets or hex keys. I have built plenty of complex machinery. It's actually significantly easier for me to source 50mm flywheels/pulleys, or v-belts, or whatever, than it is to try to get someone to give me reasonable tolerances on imperial. While it's true machining is done to thousandths of an inch in the US, most of…

Good to see that the situation is improving. The more the US imports the more stuff will be in metric, it's unavoidable. But I'll believe it when the construction industry let's go of the foot and the inch. A 12.7 mm collet is not a metric collet. A metric collet would be a 12 or 13 mm.

My point was exactly that the construction industry and others already deals in metric whether they know it or not. Yes, they spec 2x4's, and 3/4" CDX sheathng, but every piece of sheathing they use is actually made to millimeter specs, not imperial specs.

This was my point about the collet, too. It's true they collets are not meant to be holding metric sized end mills/etc, but the collet itself is milled using metric sizes. They are not milled to 0.50000, they are milled to 12.70mm.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#373

Post by tadfisher »

tnuc wrote: post #334
mootothemax wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember during the influx of Polish workers in the UK, that a pub got into some trouble because it sold a certain Polish beer in a 1 litre glass. From what I recall, it was more that they were using Żywiec-branded glasses, which hold 0.3 and 0.5-litres respectively. UK law only allows beer to be sold in pint units. I doubt they were doing it on purpose, but the small difference adds up quite quickly: serve 10 drin…

>UK law only allows beer to be sold in pint units. Really? What are those things called Half pints?

0.5 pints is still measured in pint units.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#375

Post by funkaster »

bjustin wrote: post #252
smackfu wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amusing visual evidence that speaking English sucks: http://cnrsociety.org/images/English-Official_Map-s.png

>1/6 is a rather sizable fraction of the world's population (India itself is ~1/6 or 1/7 at over a billion people). Are there any other languages that are official for so many people? The metric system graphic indicates <1/6 of the world's population highlighted as not using the metric system, making gp's point stronger.

> Are there any other languages that are official for so many people?

Yes, Chinese for one. And Spanish closely follows English[1]

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_numb...

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#376

Post by jamesjguthrie »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #228
jamesjguthrie wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We ask for a footlong, a quarter pounder etc when we go out for fast food. Our fat friends are 16 stone, 17 stone. We live miles away from each other. Penalties in football are taken in the 18 yard box. We use cup measures for flour, sugar etc in cooking. The average penis is ~6 inches when fully erect. I've got two 4 pint cartons of milk in my fridge. I could go on. Imperial units are absolute muck and I cannot wait…

> We ask for a footlong, a quarter pounder etc when we go out for fast food. So? There's nothing wrong with asking for something called a "footlong" and getting a 30cm meal. Nothing wrong with asking for a "pint" and getting 500ml of beverage.

I don't mean that we only ask for these things, we are served these things. We are served 6 inch or foot-long subs; pints - not half litres - of beer; etc.

It's not just a simple lingual thing. We actually buy products that are divided into round imperial measurements, i.e. 1 foot, 1/4 of a pound, 2 pints, etc.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#377

Post by DannyBee »

jacquesm wrote: post #360
DannyBee wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have all of those things except the drain pipe and a highway sign. Every socket set i have contains both SAE and metric. Half of my power tools are in metric (festool). All plywood that you buy from the hardware store in the US is really metric sized nowadays. Every screw/fastener on every tool I own is metric or metric sized. I haven't used my SAE hex keys in eons.

When you say 'metric sized' do you mean 1250x2500 or do you mean 1219.20 x 2438.4? Home Depot does not agree with you. From http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbu0m/h_d2/Navigation?c... this is my absolute favorite: "5.2 mm x 2 ft. x 4 ft. Sanded project panel", all the rest is in Imperial.

I mean that nominal 1/2" plywood is not 1/2" anymore, it's undersized to 12mm.

The width/length is not in metric, the actual thickness is, though they come up with an imperial equivalent that is within a few thousandths.

In other words, they tell folks 1/4 plywood is 15/64, 1/2" plywood is 15/32, etc. In reality, they are undersized to the nearest mm.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#378

Post by jlgreco »

tedunangst wrote: post #357
jlgreco wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were time conversions as common or necessary as other unit conversions, you can bet your ass decimal time would have more takers. Even so, varying units does restrict how we can express time. Even if someone tells you something as simple as "half a week", you have to ask for clarification. And while "a week from now" translates to a date, forget about "a month from now." That could mean half a dozen different things.

When someone tells me "half a kilometer" assuming they really mean 500m would usually be a dreadful mistake. It means "some uncertain distance you can probably walk". Decimal units don't magically make people more accurate.

When someone says "half a quart" who the fuck knows how much that is? I sure don't, and I'm American. Hell, even a regular quart throws me, all I have there is a vague notion that milk is sold in that amount. When someone says "half a liter" you can be sure they mean 500ml, and you can instantly know how much that is in any kitchen measuring device you have.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#379

Post by DannyBee »

lutorm wrote: post #368
DannyBee wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have all of those things except the drain pipe and a highway sign. Every socket set i have contains both SAE and metric. Half of my power tools are in metric (festool). All plywood that you buy from the hardware store in the US is really metric sized nowadays. Every screw/fastener on every tool I own is metric or metric sized. I haven't used my SAE hex keys in eons.

Like jaquesm says, I just bought plywood at home depot and it came in 6.45mm thickness, 24"x48". I don't know how you get 6.45mm either in metric or imperial, but it's clearly not "sized in metric".

Thickness wise, they are sized in metric. If you got 6.45mm, someone messed up :)

No non-hardwood plywood, even 1/4" plywood, is oversized, and 6.45mm would be oversized at .2539 inches. If it was actual 1/4" (hardwood plywood), it would be 6.4mm per APA (american plywood association) standards.

Outside of hardwood plywood, thicknesses are really done in metric.

1/4" nominal plywood nowadays is sized at "15/64" imperial, or in reality, 6mm.

1/2" nominal plywood is 12mm, or "15/32".

(the actual sizes are metric, but are close enough in tolerance to imperial /32 or /64 sizes that they work)

The only plywood you will find that is "actual" size in imperial is domestically produced hardwood plywood.

This is not a large percentage of produced plywood :)

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#380

Post by return0 »

xefer wrote: post #51
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #14

Before we start with the standard junk about "imperial measures are better because they are easier to understand / better suited to human scale / etc." can I say nope . The only advantage that imperial measures have (for some) is that they are familiar. That's the sum total of it. People where were raised metric find these apologies for imperial measures to be pure gibberish.

To be honest, although I know the obvious benefits of metric, I still prefer imperial simply because of its messiness. I realize the system is archaic, etc., but I still like that connection, as attenuated as it may be, to our ancient past. Use metric for all scientific purposes, etc., but keep that connection to the natural world. I suppose I like it in the same way I prefer natural languages to some artificial lang…

It's a load of fun until you try to create an international website selling clothes, or food recipes, or even has dates on it.

We 've already settled on using English for everything on the net, why not settle on common language about measures too.

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