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Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

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Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#261

Post by reycharles »

HCIdivision17 wrote: post #96
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #14

Before we start with the standard junk about "imperial measures are better because they are easier to understand / better suited to human scale / etc." can I say nope . The only advantage that imperial measures have (for some) is that they are familiar. That's the sum total of it. People where were raised metric find these apologies for imperial measures to be pure gibberish.

From what I've experienced, we use the imperial units for the same reason we use degrees over radians: the units allow for common use of integer multiples of simple fractions. For some people, a simple fraction of a relatable unit really is easier to deal with than a base ten decimal, and a lot of labor out there simply doesn't need higher precision. Of course, once you enter any sort of engineering work, well, simpl…

First of all, I think it's a poor example. A full circle in degrees is an integer while in radians it's not even a fractional number (it's an irrational number)!

Also, I don't get the thing about fractions. Decimal numbers are fractions as well.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#262

Post by chiph »

dgavey wrote: post #241
Svip wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding of speed limits in the US is that each state defines it. There is no national speed limits (hence why Montana is famous for its high speed limits on motorways, but not much else). But I doubt that Washington D.C. uses kph on its speed signs, though.

Arizona has some signs in Kilometers. [ http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/15/us/15highway.html?_r=0 ]

The last sign in the US that I saw marked in metric was one on northbound I-95 in South Carolina, just north of the I-26 interchange. The sign was replaced about 2 years ago with a new one that only shows distances in miles.

I suspect that metrication of the highway system in the US will only happen if a large state like California or Texas converts. But with the current budget situation, that's highly unlikely.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#263

Post by kriro »

DanBC wrote: post #172
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #14

Before we start with the standard junk about "imperial measures are better because they are easier to understand / better suited to human scale / etc." can I say nope . The only advantage that imperial measures have (for some) is that they are familiar. That's the sum total of it. People where were raised metric find these apologies for imperial measures to be pure gibberish.

You think there are no advantages to easy divisibility? 16 is divisible by 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16. 24 is divisible by 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12, 24 10 just has 1, 2, 5, 10

We have 10 fingers and that's probably why base10 is somewhat naturally wired into our brains. I'd like to remove 2 fingers and go to base8 but can't quite settle on the right ones.

Thumb is out of the question because it's what sets us apart, lets us use tools and so forth. Next finger up is usefull for pointing, not getting interrupted while on the phone and most importantly pulling triggers...seems valuable enough. Finger #3 has too much social importance due to it's use as a universal sign of diagreement. Finger #4 seems to be of mostly sentimental value if you're married I could see this one as a viable candidate. Finger #5 is freakishly small compared to the rest but it is also very valuable for swearing.

So I think I'd propose removing both fingers #4 on birth from here on out or I suppose we could keep it as is. Occam's razor would suggest keeping it as is but could also be used to cut off the fingers.

Too many choices...which makes me wonder if binary isn't the way to go after all.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#264

Post by cygx »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #192
ubernostrum wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boat speed is measured in knots. Knots are non-SI, since they're based on the non-SI nautical mile (1 knot = 1nm/hr). But they are a good example of why context is important; the nautical mile is absolutely superior to the kilometer for use in navigation (at sea or in the air). Forcing the SI unit there would actually make the relevant tasks more complex and more difficult.

"the nautical mile is absolutely superior to the kilometer for use in navigation (at sea or in the air)." Why is that?

On earth, the meridian has an approximate length of 20,003.93m.

    20,003.93km / 180 / 60 ≈ 1,852.22m ≈ 1,852m = 1NM
Note, however, that

    20,003.93km / 200 / 100 ≈ 1,000.20m ≈ 1,000m = 1km
so if we used gradians/gon where the full turn corresponds to 400 instead of 360, the kilometer would be an approximation as good as the (international) nautical mile.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#265

Post by mootothemax »

kokey wrote: post #222
Svip wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK and the US is essentially the same story. The British seemed furious that the EU mandated use of metric internally. But it did not force the UK to change its road signs (still in yards and miles) or what beer comes in (pints). Nothing really changed, other than confirming by directive that EU member states uses the Metric system with one another. There are still Brits who complain that the weather reports are…

I remember during the influx of Polish workers in the UK, that a pub got into some trouble because it sold a certain Polish beer in a 1 litre glass.

I remember during the influx of Polish workers in the UK, that a pub got into some trouble because it sold a certain Polish beer in a 1 litre glass.

From what I recall, it was more that they were using Żywiec-branded glasses, which hold 0.3 and 0.5-litres respectively. UK law only allows beer to be sold in pint units.

I doubt they were doing it on purpose, but the small difference adds up quite quickly: serve 10 drinks at pint prices for only the cost of 9 pints.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#266

Post by Thrymr »

AlexeiSadeski wrote: post #142

I could care less about using metric, but don't touch Fahrenheit. Celsius (water based) is inferior to Fahrenheit (air based) for those of us whom just so happen to reside in the atmosphere instead of the sea.

It's more accurate to say Fahrenheit is brine based. 0°F was based on the freezing point of a brine solution used by Ole Rømer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%B8mer_scale

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#267

Post by czzarr »

davidw wrote: post #35
czzarr wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

quite frankly this is deceitful, a lot of Americans already use the International System daily for their work, and I would bet that a very large number of Americans have some knowledge of it. Whereas the Euro was completely new, the International units have been here for years.

> deceitful I'm telling it like I see it, please do not ascribe malice to what I'm writing. I wish we had the metric system in the US, but the units just aren't as meaningful as familiar degrees F, pounds, inches, feet, miles, and so on. That's true for me even after having spent a lot of time living here in Italy, to varying degrees, depending on how much I use a given unit.

sorry I wasn't implying any malice, just wanted to say your explanation was misleading in my opinion

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#268

Post by cicero »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #238
HCIdivision17 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've experienced, we use the imperial units for the same reason we use degrees over radians: the units allow for common use of integer multiples of simple fractions. For some people, a simple fraction of a relatable unit really is easier to deal with than a base ten decimal, and a lot of labor out there simply doesn't need higher precision. Of course, once you enter any sort of engineering work, well, simpl…

> the units allow for common use of integer multiples of simple fractions. What does that mean? Isn't "use of multiples of fractions" a property of numbers in general? > For some people, a simple fraction of a relatable unit really is easier to deal with than a base ten decimal What's easier is what you're used to. That's the whole point.

12 can be evenly divided into thirds and quarters, but 10 cannot. It is more likely that something will need to be divided 2 or 3 ways than 5 ways.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#269

Post by eru »

decasteve wrote: post #243
graeme wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. In Canada, we still use imperial measures for body height and body weight, and many older folks still talk in miles and fahrenheit. But everyone adjusted to metric for less personal weights and measures, and other abstract measures. Pretty good compromise, I think.

Another Canadian here (Maritimer). With temperature I find many people talk about the weather in Celsius but the temperature of their homes/thermostats in Fahrenheit. Swimming pools also measured in Fahrenheit. Gym weights, except in Olympic lifting competition, everyone talks lbs. While in the UK I noticed everyone measures weight in stone (1 stone = 14 lbs).

Yes. The gym weights I found in the UK where in kg, though.

Re: Make the Metric system the standard in the United States

#270

Post by sp332 »

frogpelt wrote: post #185
danneu wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time one of the red countries does business with the grey countries, there's conversion deadweight.

We should all have one currency too, then?

Currency is backed by different governments, and they have different risks, rates of inflation, etc. We're just talking about measuring things.
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