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How To Lose Weight And Influence People

mikealrogers.com

51–60 of 73 posts

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#51
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence net calorie balance . All the words are meaningful in that description. For the same reason, I say "long term average mass". Weight is sufficiently noisy that I can be pinned to the mat on a silly debate-club technicality while the larger issue remains unaddressed. When I say "net calorie balance" I'm not talking about subtracting the calories on the elliptical machine from the calories on the chocolate bar. Th…

>You just look at the scale or the mirror and change your behaviour. The question is what do you change. If I wake up one morning and decide I'm going to make a change and reduce my caloric intake. Instead of having my normal 1000 Cal eggs and and bacon, I decide to have a 500 Cal glass of sugar water. By lunchtime I'm starving and I feel week so without thinking about it I consume an extra 600 Cal over what I normal…

> Furthermore, keto fans aren't arguing that ketosis violates the laws of physics.

I don't have the exact link to hand; but please take it from me on face value that I have had "ketards" do just that. I realise that most of you are sensible people, but sometimes ... well, I guess every group has its share of people who make the rest look bad.

> Eating what is labeled as 1000 Cal of food A may cause more weight gain that eating 1000 Cal of food B.

Right, so we're arguing about labels. That's why I always use the term "net calorie balance". I'm not referring to the label on the tin (though that's a usable first-order approximation in many cases), I mean the actual physical-physiological outcome for the day.

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#52
post #11

I've been a vegetarian since I was 18 and always was very slim, until a couple of years ago (mid thirties - actually not a strict vegetarian anymore in recent years). The vegetarian diet was of course very rich in carbs. I don't see a way to go low carb as a vegetarian. That I was slim with a "high carbs" diet for 20 years also makes me doubt the carbs theory a bit. There seem to be other factors. I exercise less, bu…

That I was slim with a "high carbs" diet for 20 years also makes me doubt the carbs theory a bit.

Not all carbs are the same. Sugar, potatoes and refined flour are very concentrated, fast to digest and process. Also there are the interactions. You can lose weight eating only steaks.

The thing is that carbs diet is effective for the people that are already overweight. It's not as if you need to do them to stay slim. Actually I don't do it anymore (I eat less, avoid fats and prefer fruit and salads, also works). But I can witness it works.

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#53

> After the first week, which is always the hardest, I'd lost 10 pounds. Dropping carbohydrates from the diet causes a drop in retained water. For instance, some energy is stored in the muscles as glycogen, which binds with water on an approximately 1-to-3 basis. Each gram of glycogen binds ~3g of water; so when you cut carb intake and begin to break down stored glycogen, you unsurprisingly lose weight quickly. Paleo…

I can't reply to your comment below b/c it is too many deep. I'll do that here and add some comments.

Net calories is fine if your only goal is "don't be a fatass". If, however, you are an athlete, lift weights or want something more, net calories don't tell you much.

There are some easy experiments.

=====================================

Let's assume 2000 cals daily is a supposed 300 cal deficit for someone. Let's assume sedentary lifestyle.

A. 2000 protein

B. 2000 fat

C. 2000 simple sugar carbs

D. 2000 complex carbs

What is going to happen? A and B will loose weight. C will likely gain weight, quite a bit of it fat. D will most likely gain weight as well, but probably less so. D in particular would depend on how "sensitive" they are to insulin spikes. =====================================

Same setup. New items.

A. 2000 cals prot+fat

B. 2000 cals prot+carbs

C. 2000 cals carbs+fat

D. 2000 cals prot+fat+carbs (35/25/40%).

A will lose/maintain weight.

B would be tough. Probably lose/maintain.

C would gain weight (carbs and fat together do bad things, particularly in sedentary individuals).

D. This is you. Would lose weight, but suboptimally. A would be better for weight lose.

=====================================

For some context, I guess. I'm an amateur bodybuilder and powerlifter. I used to play competitive basketball. I have a (rather time consuming hobby) of writing fitness books. When people say "net calories are all that matter" it is clear they don't understand the problem domain nearly enough. Nor do they understand that one must manipulate the macronutrients to achieve certain goals.

I hope we one day STOP talking about calories completely and only talk about macronutrient ratios and grams. This is much more important.

For instance, I have a photoshoot coming up for a book. I'm cutting bodyfat right now to get as lean as possible. I'm running 6.5 days of near zero carbs, .5g fat/lb of desired bodyweight and 1-2g protein/lb of desired bodyweight (leg day I take in more protein for instance) and a singular non-carb insulin spike after my workout (whey protein, leucine and creatine shake to spike insulin and spare my muscle).

On the 7th day, I "carb up", or refeed. I basically go nuts and eat simple carbs (icecream, rice, cereal) to replenish my glycogen stores and, WAY MORE IMPORTANTLY, recalibrate my hormones.

When I'm trying to gain muscle, I do this:

only protein and fat before a workout. Only carbs and protein after a workout. My macronutrients are about 20/25/55 (fat, protein and carbs).

If net calories were the only thing that mattered, I could eat 1000 cals of pure sugar and get ready for my photo shoot. I can't. That is stupid.

If net calorie surplus were the only thing that mattered to gain muscle I could eat 5000 cals of pure sugar or 5000 cals of pure fat to put on muscle. I can't. That is stupid.

You have to understand what they are doing. However, there are some VERY simple rules. It just isn't nearly as simple as you think. And it is foolish to perpetuate this decades old bunk science.

EDITED: tried to fix up the formatting a bit.

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#54
post #10

Devils Advocate Time. Technically I'm morbidly obese. I'm 6'3" and I weigh in just shy of 300lbs. This shocks most people as I don't look like someone who weighs close to 300lbs although I'm very obviously overweight. I'm working hard to lose weight purely to prevent myself from dying young so that my son has a Dad he can grow old with. In the mean time, let me dispel a myth: Fat != Lazy I have absolutely no doubt th…

Being a bit of a fat ass, I also used to delude myself into thinking that the "fat-lazy" relationship was a myth. But when I started carrying around my 2 year old girl (who weights ~25libs), I noticed how tired and slow I got after some minutes.

Then I realized that I carry around at least 2x that same weight around my waist all day long...

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#55

> After the first week, which is always the hardest, I'd lost 10 pounds. Dropping carbohydrates from the diet causes a drop in retained water. For instance, some energy is stored in the muscles as glycogen, which binds with water on an approximately 1-to-3 basis. Each gram of glycogen binds ~3g of water; so when you cut carb intake and begin to break down stored glycogen, you unsurprisingly lose weight quickly. Paleo…

I can't reply to your comment below b/c it is too many deep. I'll do that here and add some comments. Net calories is fine if your only goal is "don't be a fatass". If, however, you are an athlete, lift weights or want something more, net calories don't tell you much. There are some easy experiments. ===================================== Let's assume 2000 cals daily is a supposed 300 cal deficit for someone. Let's as…

Honestly, you are just burning a bunch of done-to-death straw men. (esp. the common "only thing" vs. "most important") Obviously the effects will be different.

But the first and most important (!) factor for body composition and fatness is still caloric balance. As confirmed by a vast amount of experimental data in real humans under controlled conditions. Which is Jacques Point. Macronutrients (as well as micronutrients) do have very significant consequences (Leptin, Insulin blabla.). But that won't help at all if caloric intake/output don't match your goal. It seems you read some of that nonsense Gary Taubes & co perpetuate?

Source: I'm a med student & fitness professional, who also writes fitness books. And gets results.

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#56
"The most important piece of knowledge I took from 4HB and haven't seen anywhere else is to eat a protein rich breakfast (I do 4 fried eggs) within 30 minutes of waking up. This was very hard for me to keep up with so I have sample data from weeks where I was very consistent and weeks where I didn't even make it out of the shower in 30 minutes. For me, eating that breakfast within 30 minutes of first waking up more than doubles my weekly weight loss. I still don't fully understand why this works, but it does, at least for me. It's one of those things you read and don't believe until you actually do it to yourself and measure often."

Anyone interested on this bit should have a look at Jack Kruse's leptin reset diet (http://www.jackkruse.com/my-leptin-prescription/). His posts are incredibly difficult to read, but as a dentist and neurosurgeon who has lost tons of weight himself, he really seems to know what he is talking about.

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While admittedly I haven't taken the time to read your entire blog post, I'm throwing this link out there for your perusal: http://thatpaleoguy.com/2012/12/19/calorie-rants-and-ketosis... Quite simply, you have to consider how a calorie takes the path to becoming a calorie in our system, imo.

My overarching theme in my blog post is that the underlying complexity (which absolutely exists) is utterly optional for actually controlling weight. You just don't need to know it or understand it. Eat less --> weigh less and Eat more --> weigh more Are sufficiently good that you can form a working control system with them. No other variables need be observed or cared about.

I have to say that has not been my experience. I've been keto a few times and have been now for maybe 6 weeks. By far my longest run at it. I dropped 7kgs and at the moment your rules as above do not apply. I can eat more total calories (as fat) than when not keto-eating (i.e. more calories from carbs) and have no weight gain. When I up the carbs (>50g/day) I get the water gain, and presumably if I increased the carbs I would return to my previous state, roughly 17%bf and 75kgs.

Perhaps its context... I don't see things, where I am, as simple as you write them above.

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#59

> After the first week, which is always the hardest, I'd lost 10 pounds. Dropping carbohydrates from the diet causes a drop in retained water. For instance, some energy is stored in the muscles as glycogen, which binds with water on an approximately 1-to-3 basis. Each gram of glycogen binds ~3g of water; so when you cut carb intake and begin to break down stored glycogen, you unsurprisingly lose weight quickly. Paleo…

I can't reply to your comment below b/c it is too many deep. I'll do that here and add some comments. Net calories is fine if your only goal is "don't be a fatass". If, however, you are an athlete, lift weights or want something more, net calories don't tell you much. There are some easy experiments. ===================================== Let's assume 2000 cals daily is a supposed 300 cal deficit for someone. Let's as…

It is very interesting but can you point to the research which validates your points? Also is eat-less diet supported by some research?

Re: How To Lose Weight And Influence People

#60
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't reply to your comment below b/c it is too many deep. I'll do that here and add some comments. Net calories is fine if your only goal is "don't be a fatass". If, however, you are an athlete, lift weights or want something more, net calories don't tell you much. There are some easy experiments. ===================================== Let's assume 2000 cals daily is a supposed 300 cal deficit for someone. Let's as…

Honestly, you are just burning a bunch of done-to-death straw men. (esp. the common "only thing" vs. "most important") Obviously the effects will be different. But the first and most important (!) factor for body composition and fatness is still caloric balance. As confirmed by a vast amount of experimental data in real humans under controlled conditions. Which is Jacques Point. Macronutrients (as well as micronutrie…

>>As confirmed by a vast amount of experimental data in real humans under controlled conditions.

Could you please cite an actual studies?

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