Live data from Hacker News

Silicon Valley's Problem

cbracy.tumblr.com

101–106 of 106 posts

Re: Silicon Valley's Problem

#101
post #69

So, as I read through the comments on this post I see a lot of indifference to her argument and a lot of anger toward the government. Government is broken. Government uses outdated, bespoke technology from the 90s. Technology is not a priority. Government is inefficient. (I could say the same things about much of the not-for-profit community as well). Those are all true, but that's partially because the exact people…

> if you really cared about the hardest problems you could find why isn’t addressing civic and social problems on your list?

Yes. As someone who also grapples with applying technology to public policy issues, I think part of the reason that more people from the tech sector don't dive into civic issues is that the challenge there is frequently 10% tech and 90% organizational/personal. Like you said though, those that can revolutionize business process (and I would add have excellent people skills) can add a lot to government.

I definitely wish you luck in your next endeavor and would love to connect as you're making the switch to the private sector (I have been contemplating a switch of my own).

Re: Silicon Valley's Problem

#102
post #77
post #6

The underpinning idea in US governance is the idea that if you don't like the society you live in you can build a new one a little further out west. Until seasteading becomes feasible SF/the internet is as west as it gets. Amazingly, or unsurprisingly to libertarians, we can build our own society with out government telling us what to do. What is wrong with people solving their own problems rather than lobbying gover…

Well, we can disagree whether moving a little farther west is really the underpinning idea in US governance. I think that question was basically settled in the Whiskey Rebellion: there was never some idyllic period of liberty in American history where the government just was not on people's back. Developers and entrepreneurs seem to too often live under this false notion that just because they can build things easily…

Given [the fact that the federal government exists and has immense powers, and state and local governments exist and have immense powers], I think we're presented with two choices. We can either try to make government work better or we can ignore it.

I hear this argument a lot, and for some reason, I always think of slavery in the US.

Imagine you are a slave. You don't like it, and wish slavery would end. Another slave tells you:

"Given the fact that slavery exists and slave owners have immense power, I think we're presented with two choices. We can either try to make slave owners better or we can ignore slavery."

Put in that light, the suggestion seems absurd: empower slave owners to be even better at slavery? Really? How does that help us not be slaves? And how does ignoring slavery help?

And why are these the only two options? I can see why the slave owners would want these to be the only two options, but you're a slave, too. Surely, surely, ending slavery has to be an option too?

-----

My favorite slavery thought experiment concerns democratic slavery:

One day, a slave notices that his owner is, well, something of a dictator. He's the only guy in charge, and hey, who picked him anyway?

So the slaves get together and demand the right to vote to choose their slave owner. (The possibility that slavery might be wrong, in and of itself, does not occur to them.)

Two different slave owner "parties" arise (let's call them the Rs and Ds), and every four years, the slaves are given the opportunity to vote for the slave owner candidate from the R party, the D party, and usually one (or sometimes two) fringe candidates not associated with either party.

The slaves do a great "get out the vote" effort to choose their slave owner for the next four years, but still, less than half of the slaves vote.

Those slaves that don't vote for a new slave owner are told to STFU about slavery, since they didn't vote, by the slaves who did vote.

Now replace "slavery" with "government", "slave owners" with "politicians", and "citizen" with "slave".

At the very least, it should be clear that the act of voting doesn't legitimize government, just like voting doesn't legitimize slavery (which is not the same as saying government is illegitimate, it may be, or may not be, but voting doesn't make it so).

Voting also doesn't confer any moral benefit over those that choose not to vote, for similar reasons -- those telling non-voters to STFU are, in fact, wrong to do so.

-----

All of this is to say that, it seems to me, the mere existence of a thing, regardless of its "immense" power, doesn't mean anything with regard to whether we should attempt to prop it up further, ignore it, or tear it down.

And as with the democratically-elected slave owners, even the presence of things like 'voting' and 'elections' is no guarantee that the system (slavery) is in any way moral -- voting slaves are still slaves, after all.

IMO no one should feel obligated to help an entity they believe is actively hostile to their own, or others, interests -- regardless of the current power and/or respect said entity has with their peers -- government included.

Re: Silicon Valley's Problem

#103

It surely is embarrassing that California's two senators were strong supporters of PIPA and that they are still in office. Silicon Valley is sending a strong message - "Mess with us, and we'll be very angry for about 4 days. Then we'll go back to trying to get rich." If the Tea Party could throw out dozens of fiscal moderate Republicans from the Congressional caucus, surely we - the technically savvy citizens of Sili…

It's important to remember how tiny the tech crowd really is vs. the size of California.

Oh I'm sorry, I missed the unsuccessful Silicon Valley attempt to defeat Dianne Feinstein in the primaries.

Re: Silicon Valley's Problem

#104
post #13

Meh. The Silicon Valley rich are famously stingy philanthropists and a defense I’ve heard more than once is that the tools they spend their time building are inherently good. “Why donate money when people can just download my app and instantly have a better life?” Maybe I have a different view on the this from most on HA as I live in Africa, but products like cheaper cellphones have had a far more massive effect for…

"Give a guy a fish, and he'll have food for a day. Teach a man how to fish, and he'll have food for a lifetime." This is why I really love the Kiva model: instead of giving money away, you instead become a 2nd/3rd world Angel Investor. It also makes me think about Hans Rosling's excellent TED talk about population growth and globalization: http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_on_global_population_g...

I'd like to plug Zidisha ( https://www.zidisha.org )

It's a lot like Kiva, except there's no MFI acting as a middleman. Thus, borrowers pay far lower interest rates.

You see, borrowers of Kiva loans actually pay a lot in interest, with an average rate of about 35% - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiva_(organization)#Current_int... . At Zidisha, borrowers pay as little as 5% in interest.

Kiva has a pilot program inspired by Zidisha called Kiva Zip.

Disclosure: I'm on the board.

Re: Silicon Valley's Problem

#105
post #97
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irrigation isn't a public good. Public goods are non-excludable and non-rivalrous, neither of which apply to public infrastructure.

Right, but this is a minor subset of your initial premise. And even in that subset, outside of water/mineral rights[1], you are talking edge cases. A road is a quasi-public-good until there is a traffic jam. Central park is a quasi-public good until it is occupied by a permit holder, etc. Second, The public policy rationale for these "investments" is to provide quasi-public good as services. For example, the public o…

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley's Problem

#106
post #19
post #13

Meh. The Silicon Valley rich are famously stingy philanthropists and a defense I’ve heard more than once is that the tools they spend their time building are inherently good. “Why donate money when people can just download my app and instantly have a better life?” Maybe I have a different view on the this from most on HA as I live in Africa, but products like cheaper cellphones have had a far more massive effect for…

Leave aside that I don't think the analogy to African aid is quite relevant here, I agree with you. Charity alone isn't necessarily helpful nor does it define the good a person has done. But the lack of philanthropy in SV is indicative of the attitude and culture I'm trying to describe: individualistic, not integrated into a diverse community, divorced from a sense of civic responsibility.

Does it have to be indicative of those things? To me, it indicates a data driven personality instead of an emotionally or socially driven one. Are they really divorced from a sense of civic responsibility? Don't they pay taxes and serve on juries? And, at the risk of placing data above my easily manipulated emotional state, where's your data?
Post reply on HN