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Fixing the computer guy posture [pdf]

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Re: Fixing the computer guy posture [pdf]

#11

Post by henrik_w »

When you ignore (or are unaware of) ergonomic issues for years, you can get into serious trouble (like I did). I had been programming for over 10 years without any problems (and without paying any attention to ergonomics), and 7 years ago I got Repetitive Stress Injury (RSI) really bad. I tried many things to get rid of it, including lots of exercises like the ones in this post, but it was very hard to get rid of. The RSI got so bad that I thought I had to give up programming all together.

Fortunately I managed to find a combination that worked for me. The most important component was using a break program that made sure I took breaks to rest my arms and hands, and to do some exercises. I also switched to an ergonomic keyboard and mouse. I am now completely recovered, but it really made me realize that we need to pay attention to ergonomics.

I've written up my story in more detail here: http://henrikwarne.com/2012/02/18/how-i-beat-rsi/

In addition to what I mention in my post, I am now also using a height-adjustable desk (some people think they are expensive, but they're not). It's really good to be able to switch between sitting and standing. If you are like me for the first 10 years of my career (i.e. ignoring ergonomics), consider paying a little bit of attention now, otherwise it may become a problem later on.

Re: Fixing the computer guy posture [pdf]

#12

Post by katbyte »

rimantas wrote: post #10
truemuscle wrote: post #3

Some of the claims are just plain wrong. "Heavy lifting" doesn't make your posture worse. If you squat with good technique, working up to heavy loads, you'll have rock hard lower back stabilizers - cause otherwise, you won't be able to squat heavy.

Yeah. Also: "what you do in the gym only cements what you have"—what kind of nonsense is this? If you go to a gym with a weak core and start to work out with free weights you will fix it. How do you cement something that is not even here?

I think its a poor way of saying that if you have rather bad posture and work out to build muscle etc, with that bad posture your not necessarily fixing your posture, and may just make it harder to fix in the long run as your muscles build and develop with the bad posture/habits.

However I don't know how accurate or correct that may be.

Re: Fixing the computer guy posture [pdf]

#13

Post by andrewtbham »

I have always had bad posture, and I have looked far and wide for how to correct it. I think exercise is part of the equation, but I have also seen some strong people with bad posture. Another thing that has helped me has been the alexander technique. Before I learned about it, I didn't really understand what good posture was.

here is an example about how to "hold your head up"

http://www.freeyourneck.com/blog/?p=176

Re: Fixing the computer guy posture [pdf]

#14

Post by vidarh »

rimantas wrote: post #10
truemuscle wrote: post #3

Some of the claims are just plain wrong. "Heavy lifting" doesn't make your posture worse. If you squat with good technique, working up to heavy loads, you'll have rock hard lower back stabilizers - cause otherwise, you won't be able to squat heavy.

Yeah. Also: "what you do in the gym only cements what you have"—what kind of nonsense is this? If you go to a gym with a weak core and start to work out with free weights you will fix it. How do you cement something that is not even here?

It's not things like the lack of core strength in itself that is a problem. You are right that will improve.

But if you for example go to the gym with a tight posterior chain, you will squat with a form that either hurts your lower back (been there, done that) or makes you emphasise the wrong muscles (been there, done that) and leave you with progressively bigger problems lifting correctly.

Similarly, it is very easy to get used to lifting with a form that is bad for you because it feels easier, which often means emphasising the muscle groups that already feels stronger. E.g. with a weak core a lot of people will lean forwards in the squat and load the spine too much.

I got to about 60kg on my back squats before I kept slamming into a wall because of how bad posture had severely limited my mobility and left me with various weaknesses. I'd repeatedly either fail or hurt my back badly enough I had to back off for 2-3 weeks. As a result after the second time I started hesitating, and kept my weight low, but eventually I'd hit it again.

When I realized what was wrong, it took me 2-3 months of stretches and modified exercises before I had loosened up enough that I flew past 100kg. 6 months later I did 160kg. Now my personal best is 187.5k (which I did at a body weight of 98, so it's no amazing feat, but it's certainly a big difference from struggling with 60%-65% of my body weight...).

Re: Fixing the computer guy posture [pdf]

#15

Post by vidarh »

truemuscle wrote: post #3

Some of the claims are just plain wrong. "Heavy lifting" doesn't make your posture worse. If you squat with good technique, working up to heavy loads, you'll have rock hard lower back stabilizers - cause otherwise, you won't be able to squat heavy.

I agree with you that if you squat with good technique and if you work up to heavy loads, you will do fine.

But if you have bad posture, and your flexibility is limited as a result, you will be unable to squat with good technique, and you will either not even try to lift all that heavy (certainly not doing full squats with all that much weight) or hurt yourself.

A tight posterior chain, for example, prevents a lot of people from keeping their back tight at the bottom of the movement. As a result you see a lot of people either rounding (and hurting their back - I did that a few times) or resorting to half or quarter squats and making excuses.

Re: Fixing the computer guy posture [pdf]

#16

Post by peteretep »

henrik_w wrote: post #11

When you ignore (or are unaware of) ergonomic issues for years, you can get into serious trouble (like I did). I had been programming for over 10 years without any problems (and without paying any attention to ergonomics), and 7 years ago I got Repetitive Stress Injury (RSI) really bad. I tried many things to get rid of it, including lots of exercises like the ones in this post, but it was very hard to get rid of. Th…

I know these are looked down on, but this is a +1 comment.

Break program saved my ass, having been told by a doctor that I'd have to give up programming as a career. I had tried all sorts of other stuff (DataHands keyboard, a vertical keyboard, wrist rest, bla bla bla), but the enforced breaks were the game changer.

Re: Fixing the computer guy posture [pdf]

#17

Post by aniketpant »

peteretep wrote: post #16
henrik_w wrote: post #11

When you ignore (or are unaware of) ergonomic issues for years, you can get into serious trouble (like I did). I had been programming for over 10 years without any problems (and without paying any attention to ergonomics), and 7 years ago I got Repetitive Stress Injury (RSI) really bad. I tried many things to get rid of it, including lots of exercises like the ones in this post, but it was very hard to get rid of. Th…

I know these are looked down on, but this is a +1 comment. Break program saved my ass, having been told by a doctor that I'd have to give up programming as a career. I had tried all sorts of other stuff (DataHands keyboard, a vertical keyboard, wrist rest, bla bla bla), but the enforced breaks were the game changer.

Nothing like this has happened to me so far. But I am going to be watching for signs all the time.

Is going for a stand-up desk worth it? I have heard that they really improve your working.

Re: Fixing the computer guy posture [pdf]

#18

Post by CKKim »

I've not had any posture or RSI problems, but here comes that word: YET. A few people have commented that whenever I stop typing I like to stretch my arms right down to the fingertips and adjust my position on the chair, sometimes getting up completely and straightening my clothes. It's an unconscious habit so I find it hilarious when people point it out but that could be something that has helped me.

These sets look very familiar to me as similar core exercises to ones I've done as part of rowing and yoga, but there are a few new ideas here I can't wait to try. Thanks!

Re: Fixing the computer guy posture [pdf]

#19

Post by nessus42 »

I'm surprised that the OP didn't mention reverse flies. I developed terrible RSI and upper back problems when I hit about 30. One of the biggest problems was my posture: slumping shoulders. By the time I got to this point, I could not physically hold my shoulders in the correct position with my back muscles, as they had completely atrophied, and a huge amount of strain was being placed on my neck muscles.

One part of the solution was physical therapy, which was mostly training me how to do the exercises I needed to do: reverse flies. First with a Theraband. Then with a stronger Theraband. Then with a stronger Theraband. And finally with dumbbells.

It was torturous! Especially since I was already in agony. But it ultimately worked like a charm.

What was also essential was getting a very good (i.e., expensive and highly adjustable) chair. And a Kinesis Contour keyboard. The Kinesis keyboard is the pinnacle of ergonomic keyboard design.

Re: Fixing the computer guy posture [pdf]

#20

Post by henrik_w »

aniketpant wrote: post #17
peteretep wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know these are looked down on, but this is a +1 comment. Break program saved my ass, having been told by a doctor that I'd have to give up programming as a career. I had tried all sorts of other stuff (DataHands keyboard, a vertical keyboard, wrist rest, bla bla bla), but the enforced breaks were the game changer.

Nothing like this has happened to me so far. But I am going to be watching for signs all the time. Is going for a stand-up desk worth it? I have heard that they really improve your working.

I got rid of my RSI without using one. However, I do feel that a stand-up desk is good for my body as well. You can get some variation through the day by alternating between sitting and standing. It also makes it a lot easier to adjust the desk to the correct height when sitting at it (no more turning little screws at the bottom of the desk legs to adjust the height).

There were also reports a while ago about how sitting all day lowers your life expectancy - another reason to try to stand up part of the day.

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