Live data from Hacker News

Joe Biden tried to ban email encryption back in 1991

dustinkirkland.wordpress.com

11–20 of 126 posts

Re: Joe Biden tried to ban email encryption back in 1991

#11
post #3

As I recall, the 1991 version of me thought a lot of things that the 2012 version of me doesn't. I presume this is true for most humans, including Vice President Biden.

What's interesting was that it was a last minute addition to an omnibus crime bill. The same thing is still happening today where amendments attacking internet freedom get tagged onto existing bills under the guise of targeting "terrorists, drug dealers, pedophiles, and organized crime" aka "The Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyps...

It was the official, overt policy of the Clinton administration through the 1990s.

I'm curious as to which amendments you refer to that "attack Internet freedom" in the guise of catching Internet predators.

Re: Joe Biden tried to ban email encryption back in 1991

#12
post #7

The whole US government tried to ban encryption wholesale in the 1990s; they even attempted to standardize a bespoke algorithm (Skipjack) that provided key escrow for law enforcement. During the same period, they religiously enforced export controls that classified any encryption code, including simple hash functions, as munitions. I remember buying a "this t-shirt is a munition" shirt in '95 by giving a website the…

There were websites where people could transfer a short program from inside the US to outside the US, and then sign a petition to say they had done so.

(http://online.offshore.com.ai/arms-trafficker/)

(http://www.cypherspace.org/rsa/)

Re: Joe Biden tried to ban email encryption back in 1991

#13
post #8
post #4

I wonder if Biden is whispering similar ideas into Obama's ears, and if it's why Obama is so keen on trampling on the 4th amendment these days.

This statement is profoundly ignorant on many levels, including the relationship between Obama and Biden, Biden's relationship to '90s crypto regulation, and Obama's take on the 4th amendment. Let's try to catalog the misconceptions here: * Biden is not a key Obama influencer. The VP rarely is, but this one in particular. * Obama's tensions with the 4th Amendment stem from counterterrorism and a desire to continue jo…

That "we were still subsidizing those same terrorists" bit causes me to reflexively facepalm every time I think about it.

Re: Joe Biden tried to ban email encryption back in 1991

#14

As I recall, the 1991 version of me thought a lot of things that the 2012 version of me doesn't. I presume this is true for most humans, including Vice President Biden.

Me too. But this wasn't some joker on a bar stool spouting opinions. This was a United States Senator, proposing law. I would hope that if I was _legislating_ I would take care to do _nothing_ until I was quite sure that my proposals didn't diminish the liberties of free people.

Biden might today protest ignorance. Okay, then what the hell was he doing proposing legislation in the first place?

Re: Joe Biden tried to ban email encryption back in 1991

#15
post #5

I wish he had succeed. Digital, not just email, encryption is a threat to national security.

> I wish he had succeed. Digital, not just email, encryption is a threat to national security.

Since this comment is on its way to being killed, I quoted the entirety so my response would not be deprived of context.

Twenty years ago, this would have engendered actual debate. Fifteen years ago, it would have been harder to defend, but it would have found defenders. Now, of course, it's seen as utterly absurd and impossible to consider seriously.

Our culture has come to depend on encryption to do even the most basic business; trying to shove the genie into the bottle even partway, by mandating weaker encryption, would simply open our businesses' bank vaults and warehouses to criminals from around the world.

Re: Joe Biden tried to ban email encryption back in 1991

#16

As I recall, the 1991 version of me thought a lot of things that the 2012 version of me doesn't. I presume this is true for most humans, including Vice President Biden.

Me too. But this wasn't some joker on a bar stool spouting opinions. This was a United States Senator, proposing law. I would hope that if I was _legislating_ I would take care to do _nothing_ until I was quite sure that my proposals didn't diminish the liberties of free people. Biden might today protest ignorance. Okay, then what the hell was he doing proposing legislation in the first place?

He was not "proposing law". He added a meaningless sense of Congress resolution in 1993 that presaged CALEA, which he cosponsored, and which passed in 1994, and which expressly exempted providers from being required to decrypt encrypted communications.

Re: Joe Biden tried to ban email encryption back in 1991

#18
post #5

I wish he had succeed. Digital, not just email, encryption is a threat to national security.

When I read these kind of comments, I am not sure if these commentators are compensated better than China's 50 cent party. Some mturk generated comments would probably provide more qualitative contributions than something like this.

Re: Joe Biden tried to ban email encryption back in 1991

#19
post #7

The whole US government tried to ban encryption wholesale in the 1990s; they even attempted to standardize a bespoke algorithm (Skipjack) that provided key escrow for law enforcement. During the same period, they religiously enforced export controls that classified any encryption code, including simple hash functions, as munitions. I remember buying a "this t-shirt is a munition" shirt in '95 by giving a website the…

Thomas, thanks for injecting sanity into these discussions.

Re: Joe Biden tried to ban email encryption back in 1991

#20
I wrote about this four years ago when Obama chose Biden as his running mate: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10024163-38.html

Note one House committee did vote in the 1990s to ban the "manufacture, distribution, or import of any encryption product that did not include a back door for the federal government," but that bill failed to become law: http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20032910-281.html

Excerpts: Biden's bill -- and the threat of encryption being outlawed -- is what spurred Phil Zimmermann to write PGP, thereby kicking off a historic debate about export controls, national security, and privacy. Zimmermann, who's now busy developing Zfone, says it was Biden's legislation "that led me to publish PGP electronically for free that year, shortly before the measure was defeated after vigorous protest by civil libertarians and industry groups." ... After taking over the Foreign Relations committee, Biden became a staunch ally of Hollywood and the recording industry in their efforts to expand copyright law. He sponsored a bill in 2002 that would have make it a federal felony to trick certain types of devices into playing unauthorized music or executing unapproved computer programs. Biden's bill was backed by content companies including News Corp. but eventually died after Verizon, Microsoft, Apple, eBay, and Yahoo lobbied against it. A few months later, Biden signed a letter that urged the Justice Department "to prosecute individuals who intentionally allow mass copying from their computer over peer-to-peer networks." Critics of this approach said that the Motion Picture Association of America and the Recording Industry Association of America, and not taxpayers, should pay for their own lawsuits. ... The ACLU also had been at odds with Biden over his efforts to censor bomb-making information on the Internet. One day after a bomb in Saudi Arabia killed several U.S. servicemen and virtually flattened a military base, Biden pushed to make posting bomb-making information on the Internet a felony, punishable by up to 20 years in jail, the Wall Street Journal reported at the time. ...

Post reply on HN