Silicon Valley is wrong about college • Hacker News Board

Re: Silicon Valley is wrong about college

#31

Post by newishuser » Sun, Dec 30, 2012, 7:00 PM UTC

Silicon Valley is not a thing with opinions. You can't call an inanimate object wrong in this way. What you meant to say was, "I believe a College education is important." But that title isn't inflammatory and eye catching.

Anyway, I think the greater argument isn't, "Drop out of college and become Bill Gates." It's "College tuition prices have gotten so out of hand that it might no longer be worth what you pay for."

Going to a private 4 year can easily cost you more than 100k. With 100k and the right motivation, you can start any number of businesses and teach yourself more about entrepreneurship than you could have in a 4 year business program and you have the chance of it making you money instead of just being a purchase.

Re: Silicon Valley is wrong about college

#32

Post by newishuser » Sun, Dec 30, 2012, 7:01 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #25

"Nowadays Silicon Valley says that college education is a waste." This is false. I know a lot of people in Silicon Valley, and I know no one who says that. Even Peter Thiel, who is arguably the iconic college skeptic, only says that college might not be optimal for everyone.

Silicon Valley is not a thing that can have opinions. He's just being inflammatory.

Re: Silicon Valley is wrong about college

#33

Post by enra » Sun, Dec 30, 2012, 7:01 PM UTC

I don't understand how college helps "low information voters". I would guess those people don't go to college or can't afford it anyway.

If you want to help educate people, make it free or almost free, like Khan or startups in the Valley are trying to do.

Re: Silicon Valley is wrong about college

#34

Post by sunwooz » Sun, Dec 30, 2012, 7:01 PM UTC

It doesn't make sense to go to college when everything you learn in college can be learned in a book. Also, some subjects just can't be taught in classrooms-- Foreign languages for example, is pretty dismal in colleges. I've yet to meet someone who actually speaks a foreign language who studied for nearly 8 years in high school and college. Education is evolving and we shouldn't cling on to this archaic method of learning when there are plenty of better ways to learn.

Re: Silicon Valley is wrong about college

#35

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Dec 30, 2012, 7:06 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley is wrong about college

#36

Post by wonderzombie » Sun, Dec 30, 2012, 7:06 PM UTC

japhyr wrote: post #3

The college experience is still pretty worthwhile, but the consequences of taking out loans in order to attend college are gettin uglier. My wife and I are both working in service fields - I am a teacher, and she is a counselor. We are both good at what we do. But we are at our income ceilings. We are paying as much in student loan payments as we are in housing costs. some of my colleagues will be in debt for the res…

I'm skeptical of many "don't go to college" arguments, but this is one worth evaluating based on career preferences and personal/financial circumstances.

Myself, I am fortunate in that my choice of career (software industry) remains quite lucrative in the midst of a recession. My wife was not so lucky, in that the crash of '08 precipitated a slow decline of her industry. I am also fortunate that, prior to landing a stable career, my parents were both willing and able to help me out with my student loans, or with first & last month rent.

Sadly I think at age 17 - 18, I am not sure anyone would've been able to make me truly understand how all the trade-offs I was making. For one thing, I made my choice of college (and ostensibly career) in the late '90s, a relatively prosperous period. Maybe I would've chosen differently in a recession. For another, I don't think I had any concept of how hard student loans could and would bite.

Re: Silicon Valley is wrong about college

#37

Post by keithpeter » Sun, Dec 30, 2012, 7:07 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #25

"Nowadays Silicon Valley says that college education is a waste." This is false. I know a lot of people in Silicon Valley, and I know no one who says that. Even Peter Thiel, who is arguably the iconic college skeptic, only says that college might not be optimal for everyone.

Good to hear that.

I posted this because I was interested in the role of the College mathematics teacher who was able to give Dave Winer confidence that he could understand the subject, and that confidence boosted Winer's belief in his abilities in other areas. I suspected there was a degree of rhetoric in the post.

http://threads2.scripting.com/2012/december/siliconValleyIsW...

This comment is interesting (ELGG is an important sharing tool with educational applications)

Re: Silicon Valley is wrong about college

#38

Post by diego » Sun, Dec 30, 2012, 7:07 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #25

"Nowadays Silicon Valley says that college education is a waste." This is false. I know a lot of people in Silicon Valley, and I know no one who says that. Even Peter Thiel, who is arguably the iconic college skeptic, only says that college might not be optimal for everyone.

That line is unfortunate, however he does make some good points in the article. My experience is that private universities tend to cater more to the individual than to the needs of society at large. Countries with free college education are different in that respect. You could argue that one is better than the other, and that catering to the individual helps society indirectly. Of course, that's a longer discussion.

Re: Silicon Valley is wrong about college

#39

Post by wonderzombie » Sun, Dec 30, 2012, 7:09 PM UTC

biesnecker wrote: post #5

japhyr wrote: post #3

The college experience is still pretty worthwhile, but the consequences of taking out loans in order to attend college are gettin uglier. My wife and I are both working in service fields - I am a teacher, and she is a counselor. We are both good at what we do. But we are at our income ceilings. We are paying as much in student loan payments as we are in housing costs. some of my colleagues will be in debt for the res…

"Going to college is not the same straightforward decision it used to be." Honestly, (and you've basically said this), taking out significant loans to go to college is not the same straightforward decision it used to be. I understand that for some people it's simply not possible to go to college without taking on debt. I don't think this is the case for the vast majority of people. If someone would have made 18 year…

I think I could've also gone to a state school and come out with less debt. Ultimately it worked out, but I have to imagine there are plenty of people for whom it did not work out. Even if your degree is worthless in practice (because of circumstance, career, etc), at least you be paying out hundreds of dollars each month for loans.

Re: Silicon Valley is wrong about college

#40

Post by wonderzombie » Sun, Dec 30, 2012, 7:10 PM UTC

jpdevereaux wrote: post #14

japhyr wrote: post #3

The college experience is still pretty worthwhile, but the consequences of taking out loans in order to attend college are gettin uglier. My wife and I are both working in service fields - I am a teacher, and she is a counselor. We are both good at what we do. But we are at our income ceilings. We are paying as much in student loan payments as we are in housing costs. some of my colleagues will be in debt for the res…

This "income ceiling" you mention brings up a potentially interesting idea - why not scale the cost of college according to the expected value of your major? I know that in a broader sense this happens already, as "better" schools tend to be more expensive, but perhaps (to use a cliché example) an English degree and a CS degree shouldn't cost the same.

You would risk a system wherein only the most affluent could afford to study CS. And there's already some inequality in terms of unpaid internships, although I am not sure how the software industry compares to other industries in this regard.