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Linux now on 42% of consumer computing devices

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Re: Linux now on 42% of consumer computing devices

#41

Post by zxcdw »

adrianm wrote: post #20
lucian303 wrote: post #15

Linux is NOT an OS and Linus did not create the OS. The OS is GNU the kernel is Linux. Thus you are comparing numbers for a kernel (Linux in Android OS versions) vs. numbers of OS's (Windows, OSX, iOS). This isn't a technicality either. Get it straight because as the article stands, it's unresearched garbage.

I've heard the argument that Linux is not actually an OS several times; but I must admit I don't completely understand it. Why is it so inappropriate to conflate the operating system with the kernel? Perhaps this is just the operating systems course I took in college talking, but I recall that an operating system is defined not by the programs in user space, but rather by how everything is handled behind the scenes;…

Operating system is more than the kernel. I do consider for example Arch and Ubuntu to be different operating systems although both use Linux as their kernel.

Perhaps some people consider the kernel to be the OS and the userland to be whatever else. I am much more bent towards the thought of an actual distribution being the OS, and the underlying kernel being just one part of the OS as a whole.

Re: Linux now on 42% of consumer computing devices

#42

Post by rhplus »

How big did the overall pie grow in each of these years. They're claiming a massive drop for Microsoft, but wouldn't it be true to say that the total number of devices out there has grown hugely too. I know kids and teens with 2 or 3 "consumer devices" each and adults with 5 to 10. That certainly wasn't true in the 2000 - 2005 period.

Re: Linux now on 42% of consumer computing devices

#43

Post by rhplus »

Hawkee wrote: post #6

The most striking statistic to me was Microsoft's drop from 97% to 20% over the past 12 years.

How many devices did the average consumer have in 2000 (a desktop PC, maybe a game console, maybe a laptop, a cable box) compared to now (an MP3 player, a smartphone, a laptop, a tablet, an e-reader, a game console, an internet TV box, in car computer, a wifi router, a backup NAS, etc). How many global consumers (think BRIC) are buying devices now that couldn't dream of it in the early 2000s?

Microsoft's share of the pie has dropped, but the pie has exploded in size.

Re: Linux now on 42% of consumer computing devices

#44

Post by justincormack »

rhplus wrote: post #43
Hawkee wrote: post #6

The most striking statistic to me was Microsoft's drop from 97% to 20% over the past 12 years.

How many devices did the average consumer have in 2000 (a desktop PC, maybe a game console, maybe a laptop, a cable box) compared to now (an MP3 player, a smartphone, a laptop, a tablet, an e-reader, a game console, an internet TV box, in car computer, a wifi router, a backup NAS, etc). How many global consumers (think BRIC) are buying devices now that couldn't dream of it in the early 2000s? Microsoft's share of the…

Despite that MS has not had an explosion in sales, the outcome they were hoping for. They probably wouldn't mind a fall in market share so much if their sales had still quadrupled.

Re: Linux now on 42% of consumer computing devices

#45

Post by thefreeman »

betterunix wrote: post #11
ivix wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "technically" running the Linux kernel, it IS running the linux kernel. It's also using most of the standard GNU tools - bash, etc. You can open a shell on a rooted android device and use it much like any other distribution. This is a huge win for Linux.

"You can open a shell on a rooted android device and use it much like any other distribution" Assuming, of course, that you can actually root it. "This is a huge win for Linux." Is it? What was won, exactly? If we are not seeing a more vibrant free software ecosystem as a result, then we did not really win anything. The prevalence of app stores, the number of Android devices that are difficult to jailbreak or for whi…

Are there android devices that are difficult to root? I have only ever used the Nexus line (closes to actual Android spec), but they have all been incredibly easy to root. I was under the impression they were actually built this way on purpose.

Re: Linux now on 42% of consumer computing devices

#46

Post by gte910h »

betterunix wrote: post #11
ivix wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "technically" running the Linux kernel, it IS running the linux kernel. It's also using most of the standard GNU tools - bash, etc. You can open a shell on a rooted android device and use it much like any other distribution. This is a huge win for Linux.

"You can open a shell on a rooted android device and use it much like any other distribution" Assuming, of course, that you can actually root it. "This is a huge win for Linux." Is it? What was won, exactly? If we are not seeing a more vibrant free software ecosystem as a result, then we did not really win anything. The prevalence of app stores, the number of Android devices that are difficult to jailbreak or for whi…

Kernel != The shell system.

You can't get shell on the gas station pumps I did either, but they run on linux.

Re: Linux now on 42% of consumer computing devices

#47

Post by brudgers »

rayiner wrote: post #25
brudgers wrote: post #12

My cars have computers which are not running Linux. Same for my microwave oven. A smartphone more closely approximates their level of end user programmability than it approximates that of an iMac. The article splits the world in a way which justifies the desired conclusion. It reminds me of the way the Amiga press used to hype even the most indirect cultural references as evidence of its impending success (yes, I kno…

Comparing a smart phone to a microwave oven is disingenuous. I'm HN-ing on my smart phone right now, which is something I used to schlep out of bed and plop myself in front of my PC to do.

I can program my microwave to automatically heat my soup for 85 seconds at 80% power beginning at 2pm. End users would struggle to program their smartphones to navigate HN automatically at that time.

Traditionally, programmability has been the consideration when determining what constitutes a general computing device. Browsing the web or reading email are not.

What deserves analysis are the premises upon which the conclusion about Linux has been reached. The basis upon which the conclusion about Linux has been reached relies on a special definition. When an argument relies on changing the meaning of words, its honesty is suspect.

Re: Linux now on 42% of consumer computing devices

#48

Post by gte910h »

ttuominen wrote: post #34
ivix wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "technically" running the Linux kernel, it IS running the linux kernel. It's also using most of the standard GNU tools - bash, etc. You can open a shell on a rooted android device and use it much like any other distribution. This is a huge win for Linux.

Android is far from a typical Linux distribution. In addition to custom kernel features (see https://lwn.net/Articles/514901/ ), most of the rest of the system hasn't got anything to do with GNU or GPL and is structured very differently from a typical distribution. O'Reilly's "Embedded Android" is a great source on Android internals. I'm not saying Android isn't good for Linux. I also do appreciate the ability to rea…

Embedded linux, which is a vast majority of those installs, never DID use typical shells for smaller targets.

Re: Linux now on 42% of consumer computing devices

#49

Post by bmuon »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #31
recoiledsnake wrote: post #17

>For Microsoft the situation is not as good. The combined share of Redmond’s different operating systems fell from 97% in 2000 to an estimated 20% in 2012. Apple, with OS X and iOS, grabs a 24% share. So does this mean anti-monopoly restrictions must be lifted on Microsoft in the US and the EU? Why is Microsoft being unfairly targeted by, for example, being forced to include a browser choosing dialog in the EU while…

They might be. I don't see the point of forced browser choosing given that the browser market is very competitive right now.

That's far from true in the iOS ecosystem.

Re: Linux now on 42% of consumer computing devices

#50

Post by rhplus »

justincormack wrote: post #44
rhplus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many devices did the average consumer have in 2000 (a desktop PC, maybe a game console, maybe a laptop, a cable box) compared to now (an MP3 player, a smartphone, a laptop, a tablet, an e-reader, a game console, an internet TV box, in car computer, a wifi router, a backup NAS, etc). How many global consumers (think BRIC) are buying devices now that couldn't dream of it in the early 2000s? Microsoft's share of the…

Despite that MS has not had an explosion in sales, the outcome they were hoping for. They probably wouldn't mind a fall in market share so much if their sales had still quadrupled.

You're right, their sales haven't quadrupled, but to be fair, across the company they haven't remained stagnant either. The best proxy I could find for sales was annual revenue, and that shows 3.2x growth for the 12 year period:

FY 2000: $22.96 billion FY 2012: $73.72 billion

Now, I'm sure financial geeks will pick holes in this simple comparison. And of course I realize that company revenue is heavily weighted by Windows and Office, and increasingly servers and tools, and much less so by direct consumer purchases.

[2000] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2000/jul00/q00-4e...

[2012] http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2012/jul12/07-19fy...

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