Earlier quoted context omitted.
"then rent increases are limited by law" In certain cases, yes, but personally I lived in SOMA in an apartment for 2 years and my rent was going to go from 2k to 3k because Google had asked the building if they could rent some of the units. So I mean, maybe it was illegal and I don't know about it, but I can certainly say I don't live in San Francisco anymore because I was priced out by new incoming tech employees.
I'm assuming you made a thinko there; as written your comment says you were forced to move because living got too inexpensive.
Shaken by the latest digital gold rush, San Francisco struggles for its soul.
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Re: Shaken by the latest digital gold rush, San Francisco struggles for its soul.
#42Grrrr. Existing SF residents are facing an influx of newcomers, who are pushing out (pricing out) some existing residents. And somehow, it never occurs to them to just make room for more people, so that existing residents don't get pushed out. SF has plenty of opportunities to build upward , but as long as SF insists on being anti-development and anti-height, the housing supply problem is going to continue.
Bingo. This: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/05/face... is good further reading if you're interested in the issue.
I think we've now gotten to such an absurd place in coastal city building markets that more people are interested in learning about the fundamental forces at work. Matt Yglesias, who wrote the linked article above, is fond of pointing out that we can use complex, advanced technologies like elevators and steel to greatly ameliorate housing affordability problems.
Re: Shaken by the latest digital gold rush, San Francisco struggles for its soul.
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
How does this change the fact that if you allow more high rises in SoMa, you can accommodate both the existing tenants and the new techies moving in, all without raising rents?
Part of the stated problem was "and the city only allows high rises in SoMa" I was under the impression SoMa was the only place where you could build high-rises and didn't think the restrictions were very tight. Also, I don't think if someone demolished a lower-class apartment in SoMa they will do anything but build the highest cost apartments (If your options were to build apartments that cost $1500/mo for locals or…
Moreover, I don't agree with the restrictions on high rises to SoMa. Why not allow them to be built elsewhere? And who says that you have a right to live in SoMa anyway? If it were allowed, high rises would go up in other parts of the city, and you could live there instead.
Re: Shaken by the latest digital gold rush, San Francisco struggles for its soul.
#44I was recently contemplating moving to the bay area from Midwest. Then a few months ago i shared a hostel room in Edinburgh with a guy from Portland. When we got to talking he told me that he is originally from San Francisco but decided to ran away to Portland to escape nearly insane cost of living. I don't know how much of this is true but he was telling me that some dingy studio apartments have 10-15 people in line…
This article: http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_71.htm appeared on HN the other day and explains why and how California as a whole is losing native-born residents; housing costs are a huge component of the problem.
Re: Shaken by the latest digital gold rush, San Francisco struggles for its soul.
#45If demand rises faster than supply, prices go up.
Demand is rising fast. Supply is being held down. Prices go up.
I come from Darwin, a wonderful little city clinging to the northern edge of the Australian continent. About 10 years ago a confluence of factors (expanded Defence presence and the early stirrings of the resources boom) meant that property prices took off.
At the same time, the hyper-local nature of politics in that part of the country (each member of parliament in the state-level government represents about 2500-3000 voters) means that infill doesn't happen because the margin of victory is easily less than two or three streets getting angry at you for authorising a new block of flats.
So: demand shot up, supply did not. Unsurprisingly, Darwin is now one of the most expensive places in Australia to live. If you can find an unoccupied flat, good luck renting a nice one for a price affordable on a normal middle-class income. And good luck finding a house for a price affordable on a normal middle-class income.
Supply and demand. It's the same everywhere for everyone. There are no exceptions. If SF wants to keep its middle class, it needs to make more housing available.
Especially high density housing for the wealthy, not the poor. Opening space at the high end of a market can have a disproportionate effect on a total market by removing massive amounts of bidding power. Every rich person who moves into a $2 million dollar apartment is a rich person who isn't bidding the price of an older building up and driving out the middle class, who in turn will drive out the poor.
Another dumb policy: giving money for deposits or loans. It just drives up effective demand. Every seller knows you can get the $X thousand dollars and then, surprise, surprise! The price of every house just rose but ~$X thousand dollars. Everything that gets given to the middle and poorer classes to subsidise housing is in fact a wealth transfer to the landlords, via good old-fashioned populist policy making.
Re: Shaken by the latest digital gold rush, San Francisco struggles for its soul.
#46Re: Shaken by the latest digital gold rush, San Francisco struggles for its soul.
#47This just in: economics applies to San Francisco. If demand rises faster than supply, prices go up. Demand is rising fast. Supply is being held down. Prices go up. I come from Darwin, a wonderful little city clinging to the northern edge of the Australian continent. About 10 years ago a confluence of factors (expanded Defence presence and the early stirrings of the resources boom) meant that property prices took off.…
Are there studies on this bit playing out in practice? My impression so far, mostly looking at Manhattan redevelopment, is that building high-end condos typically does not reduce prices for other buildings in the area, but rather raises them: the presence of new high-end housing increases demand in the immediate vicinity by more than the new building's own supply provides, assuming the area (like Manhattan or SF) is rather desirable in general terms to begin with. That may be good if you want to raise the housing values in an area (each building provides a multiplier effect that raises the prices of neighboring ones, making the whole area more desirable). But probably not good if you want to lower the prices. Good statistics either way would be interesting, though: are there cases where opening new high-end housing actually lowered the other prices in an expensive urban area? E.g. when new condo towers open in Manhattan, does it produce an observable downward move in prices?
(The main point I'm getting at is that demand and supply aren't independent variables: demand for living in an area depends quite strongly on the housing stock in that area, so building more housing stock affects both supply and demand, in possibly complex ways, which need empirical data to tease out.)
Re: Shaken by the latest digital gold rush, San Francisco struggles for its soul.
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
The landlords can see more money, so they're likely trying to maximize profits.
Do you know how supply and demand works? Profit maximization occurs within the context of supply and demand. Please study some basic economics before commenting further.
Okay, hypothetical from someone with an advanced degree in Economics, not because I'm bragging, but to save you the snark and insults:
Developer gets the green light to demolish 30 unit building and build a large high rise at say, 6th and Howard. Many of these people are on the lowest end of the income spectrum.
So you demolish the units and build a 150 unit, 15 story luxury apartment building, because you know Square is a block away and their employees can afford to pay ridiculous rents. As the owner of the building, how many units are you building to occupy the old, lower income tenants, and how many are you building to occupy the Square tenants, who will often be able to afford 3x the price?
This is the problem the article is pointing out. No matter how you build "more housing", it very certainly will be first built for the highest income people, thus pushing the lower income teachers, firefighters and policemen, out of San Francisco proper.
Re: Shaken by the latest digital gold rush, San Francisco struggles for its soul.
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you know how supply and demand works? Profit maximization occurs within the context of supply and demand. Please study some basic economics before commenting further.
What on earth are you on about? Okay, hypothetical from someone with an advanced degree in Economics, not because I'm bragging, but to save you the snark and insults: Developer gets the green light to demolish 30 unit building and build a large high rise at say, 6th and Howard. Many of these people are on the lowest end of the income spectrum. So you demolish the units and build a 150 unit, 15 story luxury apartment…
Clearly your "advanced degree in Economics" hasn't taught you any common sense.
Is anyone saying that the housing that is built first has to go to lower income people? Is anyone saying that you cannot just build more housing? Do you understand that there is not an infinite supply of tech workers looking to move into expensive apartments?
Re: Shaken by the latest digital gold rush, San Francisco struggles for its soul.
#50By far the funniest part of this is the image points "non-tech workers" straight towards SOMA: http://www.modernluxury.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/s... Geography fail.