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What one book could give me a new, useful superpower?

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Re: What one book could give me a new, useful superpower?

#241

Post by reinhardt »

jrajav wrote: post #199
reinhardt wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad most such catch-the-carrot self help books don't address "I have no idea what I want" situations, let alone "I don't really want anything" or worse.

> "I don't really want anything" Congratulations. You won.

Not wanting anything does not necessarily imply a Zen-like state of being one with the universe staring at the sky in eternal bliss. It may mean feeling empty, directionless, amotivated, detached from everything, a modern Sisyphus rolling boulders in a meaningless, absurd universe. So be careful what you wish for.

Re: What one book could give me a new, useful superpower?

#242

Post by codevandal »

ctdonath wrote: post #54

Find a good one on body language. Can't recommend one now, but some 25 years ago read several and, done well, it amounts to basic mind reading.

One that I would recommend is What Every BODY is Saying: An Ex-FBI Agent's Guide to Speed-Reading People http://www.amazon.com/What-Every-BODY-Saying-Speed-Reading/d...

Re: What one book could give me a new, useful superpower?

#243

Post by neumann_alfred »

pretoriusB wrote: post #234
neumann_alfred wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or is it because I wrote that Mao and Stalin wasn't "evil"? That just makes me a realist If you respond to my claim that they are evil in my subjective opinion, which I clearly labeled as such, that they're not "objectively, absolutely evil", that doesn't make you a realist, that makes someone who is talking to himself and his strawmen. You say you wished people would drop a notion you introduced into all of this to…

You keep using this word, "strawmen". I don't think it means what you think it means. The thing is, we're describing historical figures. Our "subjective opinions" are not really helpful guides. Or, to be more accurate, they don't matter at all. You keep repeating it's your "subjective opinion" as if that somehow makes it OK. A subjective opinion can be wrong. It's not like one can get away with saying "In my subjecti…

You keep using this word, "strawmen". I don't think it means what you think it means.

It means you make up stuff about my position and respond to that, instead of responding to my actual position. And now you just Dunning-Kruger on and on about generalities in a shallow way, as if I didn't know all of that and more of what you post. WTF.

it's totally another thing to say "Hitler was evil"

No, it's a shorthand for saying "I disapprove of his actions". It's stupid enough to outright claim what I mean by that, but now that I told you OVER AND OVER, to simply ignore it and bang on about your strawman instead is just pathetic. Cut your losses dude.

Re: What one book could give me a new, useful superpower?

#244

Post by Dylan16807 »

pretoriusB wrote: post #239
Dylan16807 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"evil" isn't an explanation, it's a label given in disgust to someone that is beyond redemption. To focus on something smaller and simpler, I would say that most serial killers, as in separate premeditated incidents over an extended period, are "evil". The reason why is probably some warped mentality likely tied into mental illness, but mental illness is not an excuse either. And it's possible you could cure them, ma…

> "evil" isn't an explanation, it's a label given in disgust to someone that is beyond redemption. I've seen it far too many times used as an explanation thought. Like, somehow, WWII can be explained away because "Hitler was evil", or complex events involving millions of people, like the USSR History can be explained by the "evil of Stalin". (Lots of times "paranoid" is used in the same vein, despite having an actual…

I can agree with that being a problem.

Re: What one book could give me a new, useful superpower?

#245

Post by neumann_alfred »

powertower wrote: post #233
neumann_alfred wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evil is a BS theological notion. I wish people would stop perpetuating it. You can call it by other names, and you do; mentally ill for example. Yet, there is no rational objective reason to declare anything wrong, evil or whatever; not even the extinction of all life in the universe, or torture for all. There is no "objective evil" any human could declare, it boils down to opinions; so I make up my own mind. Deal wi…

I'm curious about your view as a German who has formed a strong opinion on WW2... Someone once said the following, what do you think of it? Quote - History is always written by the victors. Considering the absolute defeat of Germany during WW2 ( and complete victor control of it afterwards ), I would argue that the last place you'll find an accurate, unbiased, and neutral depiction of what really caused and transpire…

I never absorbed the allied POV. IBM greatly helped with the logistics of the death camps, Hitler was Time magazine man of the year, Pearl Harbour was basically sacrificing a few ships to be able to enter the war, and the result is America was the superpower of the world, also having gained Nazi rocket scientists and "experts in fighting communism". I don't mean to make a clear point with all this, just throwing out some stuff to point out I'm cynical 360°.

But that doesn't change and doesn't undo what the Nazis did, and how they went about it. And I really just mean reading THEIR material, watching THEIR footage, listening to THEIR speeches. Goebbels screaming for total war, and denouncing pacifists as the worst enemy right after the Jews... I also possess a 4th grade history book that was printed in 1942 I think, and it's so whiny and revisionistic.. basically the whole world is evil and brutish and the Germans try to make it all better and struggle for peace blah di blah, in such a plump fashion that it's hard to believe a lot of Germans really fell for all that. And yes, it's for kids, but still. The grown-up propaganda wasn't exactly more sophisticated.

These were a bunch of crippled and/or ugly people, the leader being an Austrian, talking about The German Master Race. Nuff said? And the conceit to think once they got going, the Brits might join in, being white and whatnot. That dude flying over the channel behind Hitler's back, I forgot his name, probably being disappointed by his welcome. Silly Nazi with bad English and a dumb grin. I really, really wish they wouldn't have killed so many people, or I would find them kinda funny.

And then there's Neonazis. No revisionism needed, they're generally dumb as doorknobs. I could prove that to myself whenever I should forget by interacting with them.

Ironically, that youtube video is blocked in Germany. So I can't speak to that. I doubt that title though. Germany did a lot of reflection and introspection, what does "from a German perspective" even mean? German filmmakers, German research, German witnesses -- there are lots of documentaries that consist of that, so what is "from a German perspective"? I'm not sure if I want to fire up a proxy to watch something that could turn out to be some kind of revisionistic BS.

Re: What one book could give me a new, useful superpower?

#246

Post by bokonist »

pretoriusB wrote: post #234
neumann_alfred wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or is it because I wrote that Mao and Stalin wasn't "evil"? That just makes me a realist If you respond to my claim that they are evil in my subjective opinion, which I clearly labeled as such, that they're not "objectively, absolutely evil", that doesn't make you a realist, that makes someone who is talking to himself and his strawmen. You say you wished people would drop a notion you introduced into all of this to…

You keep using this word, "strawmen". I don't think it means what you think it means. The thing is, we're describing historical figures. Our "subjective opinions" are not really helpful guides. Or, to be more accurate, they don't matter at all. You keep repeating it's your "subjective opinion" as if that somehow makes it OK. A subjective opinion can be wrong. It's not like one can get away with saying "In my subjecti…

I agree that it is very important to understand the context and history behind awful events.

But the concept of "evil" is still very useful. The point of defining evil is so that you can teach people not to be evil. Humans may not have a "conscience" that comes from God, but our brains have evolved for a sense of conscience that can be cultivated via the social pressure of parents, family, friends, teachers, and leaders. The point of calling a person evil is to tell people, "Do not be like this person! This person was evil! If you are acting like this person act, you are a bad human being, and you should feel very bad about yourself and stop immediately."

In the case of the rise of Hitler, yes, there were events that led to his rise. But the rise of Hitler was not inevitable. Had Hitler been raised with a stronger, better moral compass, had the people who enabled his rise possessed a better moral compass, the war and the Holocaust would not have happened. After the war, the American occupiers rebuilt the education system to teach people that what Hitler did is evil, in order to install a moral compass that would prevent a repeat of the Holocaust from happening again. The Holocaust was not a tragic accident, it was not a necessary proportional response needed to prevent some other acts of suffering, the Holocaust was an act of evil. It should be labeled as such so that people's consciences will work to prevent it from happening again.

Re: What one book could give me a new, useful superpower?

#247

Post by return0 »

pretoriusB wrote: post #240
return0 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That probably depends on what one wants to do, but some people do suggest that being ruthless is the ultimate way. Example: http://www.amazon.com/How-Get-Rich-Greatest-Entrepreneurs/dp... Point is, if one is not willing to do whatever it takes, he probably doesn't really want to do the said thing, but rather tries to live up to social expectations.

> Point is, if one is not willing to do whatever it takes, he probably doesn't really want to do the said thing, but rather tries to live up to social expectations. Well, not wanting to, say, sacrifice your loved ones for something or play dirty to get it, doesn't mean you don't want it. It just means you are a moral guy, instead of a ruthless jerk. I want a new car, but I'm not willing to steal to buy one --even if…

Obviously, working to pay for it counts as "whatever it takes" too. And doing "whatever it takes" doesn't have to involve stepping onto others, but it may require grand personal sacrifice.

Re: What one book could give me a new, useful superpower?

#248

Post by neumann_alfred »

pretoriusB wrote: post #238
Dylan16807 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant that everything was per capita, sorry for being unclear there. As in: kill two million people as part of genocide and it's worse than having two million slaves. And yes I'll tell standard slaves they have it better than far worse treatment combined with starvation and followed by execution. You really think they'll disagree? Slavery may kill you early but it's no death camp . Also I don't know why you're acti…

> I meant that everything was per capita, sorry for being unclear there. As in: kill two million people as part of genocide and it's worse than having two million slaves. OK, got it now. In that case, European colonialism has killed far more people than Hitler's camps. Heck, the death toll for the native populations of the Americas alone is in the tens of millions. And execution, mass killins, genocide and starvation…

What I said is that "evil" is useless in the sense that it doesn't have any explanatory power. That is, "Why did he do that? Because he was evil" is BS.

Yeah, here we go with the strawmen again. I never said "someone did X because they were evil". I said they were evil, implying what they did is evil in my books. But then you wouldn't have anything to whine about, would you.

In it Hannah Arendt describes how what we perceive as "the great evils in history" like the Holocaust, were not executed by "evil" people (fanatics, etc), but by ordinary folks who "accepted the premises of their state and therefore participated with the view that their actions were normal".

What makes you think that not questioning enough isn't already enough to be considered evil by me? Someone asked ME if I consider Mao evil, I said yes. Which wasn't even to say "as opposed to me or anybody else".

Oh, and I saw videos of the Eichmann process and I saw no love in that man, no awareness, no nothing. And to me lack of love is already evil enough. Someone who mindlessly, coldly carries out orders is evil in my opinion, yes; that is, they are to be fought and not remembered once overcome. I DON'T CARE ABOUT THEIR MOTIVATIONS. I only care for how cancer grows in so far as it helps to excise it more efficiently better.

Re: What one book could give me a new, useful superpower?

#249

Post by neumann_alfred »

pretoriusB wrote: post #236
pretoriusB wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where did I claim otherwise? Nowhere! I actually said "seeing how it's subjective". Wait what? All your reply is based on the notion that it's ok to have this subjective use of "evil". I say the opposite: it's not OK, and we are better to use more objective ways to describe reality.

> Also you are now claiming the exact opposite of what you said earlier: "Evil is a BS theological notion". But now you want to tell me what is objectively wrong? I dare you go ahead and try, haha.. For one, I fail to see where I claim the "exact opposite". Throughout the discourse I maintain that "evil is a theological notion" and one that doesn't describe reality (the two go hand in hand). I also fail to see the "d…

Throughout the discourse I maintain that "evil is a theological notion" and one that doesn't describe reality (the two go hand in hand).

You cannot tell me what I mean by the word "evil". You can tell me how you interpret it, and I can tell you, and did so a lot of times, that you got it wrong. But then the ball just kinda flops around in your half of the court, repeating the same initial false claim about what I said.

That the Earth is flat is "objectively wrong" for example.

Wow? I was obviously talking about moral judgement, not factual correctness. I asked for an apple, you gave me an orange.

And that theological terms such as "evil" explain what people are in objective reality is "objectively wrong".

You must be some kind of masochist, because you STILL keep going on about that strawman. I told you, over and over again, I have my own compass for what I consider "good" or "evil", and anyone who isn't trying to be dense would know what that means. I never used to explain behaviour, but to describe.

Re: What one book could give me a new, useful superpower?

#250

Post by neumann_alfred »

pretoriusB wrote: post #239
Dylan16807 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"evil" isn't an explanation, it's a label given in disgust to someone that is beyond redemption. To focus on something smaller and simpler, I would say that most serial killers, as in separate premeditated incidents over an extended period, are "evil". The reason why is probably some warped mentality likely tied into mental illness, but mental illness is not an excuse either. And it's possible you could cure them, ma…

> "evil" isn't an explanation, it's a label given in disgust to someone that is beyond redemption. I've seen it far too many times used as an explanation thought. Like, somehow, WWII can be explained away because "Hitler was evil", or complex events involving millions of people, like the USSR History can be explained by the "evil of Stalin". (Lots of times "paranoid" is used in the same vein, despite having an actual…

I'm OK with using it as a label, as you say, but most people don't stop there -- they believe in the label's actual exegetical power.

And even if they don't, there's someone like you around to claim they do, which is the whole cause of this thread ballooning into such crap with lots of noise and no signal. Good luck with all that I guess.

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