Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

outsideonline.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 192 posts

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#151

Post by FrojoS »

Someone wrote: post #104
danso wrote: post #12

This bit about how certain groups of people have somehow developed different responses to cold is fascinating: Were you a Norwegian fisherman or Inuit hunter, both of whom frequently work gloveless in the cold, your chilled hands would open their surface capillaries periodically to allow surges of warm blood to pass into them and maintain their flexibility. This phenomenon, known as the hunter's response, can elevate…

Extreme example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wim_Hof (climbed Kilimanjaro, completed a marathon above the Polar circle, attempted to climb Everest, all dressed in nothing but shorts; claims that Tibetan meditation helps him)

Oh, wow - I had no idea! Thanks for pointing this out.

The scientific experiments with him are published now.

Kox et al, 2011 The Influence of Concentration/Meditation on Autonomic Nervous System Activity and the Innate Immune Response: A Case Study in Psychosomatic Medicine

http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/content/74/5/489.short

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#152

Post by InclinedPlane »

andyl wrote: post #74

I teach search and rescue people how to travel on skis or snowshoes and live in winter mountains. If you are prepared, you can stay out in sub-zero for days and days very comfortably. A key skill is constant regulation of your body temperature. You never want to become too hot/sweaty or too cold. If too cold - get into shelter, drink something hot, eat carbs, add clothes, move faster. If too hot - remove clothes, or…

If you read the annual compilations of mountaineering accidents in North America you'll notice a few trends, generally people being under prepared and having insufficient basic equipment like lights, warm clothing, or rain gear. A common theme is people getting lost or poorly estimating time or getting caught by weather and then being forced to spend a night out on a mountain when they hadn't planned to. Generally, just being more knowledgeable and trained can help though also making sure you always bring those "ten essentials" also helps a great deal and they don't add much weight or hassle if you do it right.

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#153

Post by bcbrown »

conroe64 wrote: post #61
danso wrote: post #12

This bit about how certain groups of people have somehow developed different responses to cold is fascinating: Were you a Norwegian fisherman or Inuit hunter, both of whom frequently work gloveless in the cold, your chilled hands would open their surface capillaries periodically to allow surges of warm blood to pass into them and maintain their flexibility. This phenomenon, known as the hunter's response, can elevate…

Here is a trick I learned biking around in cold Las Vegas nights to warm your hands. Squeeze whatever you are holding hard, (or make a fist and squueze) in pulses about a second apart. It will force the blood through, like a miniature heart, and your hands won't feel cold at all.

Another trick that I learned from my ski team was to do arm circles. The centripetal force forces blood into your extremities.

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#154

Post by mikeash »

pyre wrote: post #107
corin_ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My bad, of course you're right. And no, not a great sense of temperature scales - in the UK I pay attention when it's down around freezing (in Celsius) and in LA I pay attention when it's hot, 100+ in Fahrenheit. Other than those two occasions I guess I don't really notice or care. Edit: funnily enough, 45C turns out to be the hottest temperature I've personally experienced, the day LA set it's record high in Septemb…

Easiest way to do off-the-cuff conversions: - Celsius scale is based on water freezing at 0C and boiling at 100C. That's 32F and 212F, respectively. - 45C is about halfway between 0C and 100C, so it's about halfway between 32F and 212F. - Normal body temp 98.7F or 36C. - Also -40C == -40F. I looked this up once because I was out on a day that where the wind chill was -40F. I thought that I did something wrong when th…

F = C * 2 + 30

Gets you to within a couple of degrees for commonly experienced temperatures, plenty close enough for most purposes. 45C ~= 120F. The true value is 113F.

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#155

Post by dalke »

lectrick wrote: post #44

Read this a while back but this passage: "In 1980, 16 shipwrecked Danish fishermen were hauled to safety after an hour and a half in the frigid North Sea. They then walked across the deck of the rescue ship, stepped below for a hot drink, and dropped dead, all 16 of them." Damn!

As far as I can tell, this is an urban legend. That is, several people have looked for an account of this in the Danish papers, and found nothing. Here's one such person's report: http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/15jz7b/til_in...

The closest match was to "Other classic examples of post-immersion collapse include the survivors of the SS Empire Howard (Lee, 1971). The Captain of the ship, Capt Downey, reported: "everyone was conscious when taken out of the water but many lost consciousness when taken into the warmth of the trawler. Nine (out of 12) died shortly after being rescued", where "The SS Empire Howard was sunk by a U-boat on 16, April, 1942.

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#156

Post by 30thElement »

AYBABTME wrote: post #144
Tichy wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure, do cars reliably start in the cold?

They do. I've personally never had a problem starting my engine, even in -40 (Celcius) nights in Canada. It sure takes a couple of seconds, but recent cars (>1990) all start just fine in extreme cold. Given your battery is charged, and your engine is in normal conditions.

Interesting tidbit: -40 Celsius is the exact same temperature as -40 Fahrenheit.

Nitpick: If you have a diesel, your car will not start at all if the engine is cold, but if you have a diesel and live anywhere where there's a risk of it being cold enough for hypothermia, you already know this. Also if you have a crappy battery, in cold enough weather it won't put out enough juice to turn over the starting motor (that's why there is a difference between cranking amps and cold cranking amps). But again, if you live in an area where this is an issue you should already know this, and your battery is probably rated to like -40.

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#157

Post by hobbe80 »

astral303 wrote: post #32
freehunter wrote: post #8

Living in Michigan, this is one of my biggest fears. Due to the massive lakes that surround us, we frequently get a blast of warm, wet air that causes rain, and of course that warm wet air is being pushed off the lake by a cold front, causing high winds and sub-freezing temps. This combined with large stands of farmland and no trees for windrows means wind blows right across the road and freezes the rain instantly, s…

The conditions you describe are tough. Going off the road in an ice storm sucks. Love your CB and snow suit suggestions. The following is not commentary on your situation, but tips to reduce chance of getting stuck: 1. I strongly recommend running a set of good snow tires, no matter whether you have an AWD Subaru or a 4x4 truck or a FWD Corolla. Yes, truck snow tires exist. The reason is that the rubber compound is m…

The recommendation to use snow tires on cars/trucks in these areas seems to me like a given. In Sweden it's mandatory to have "winter tires" (either studded or non-studded, but rated for snow - if you're not in the southern-most parts of Sweden, where there's actually rarely snow more than a couple of weeks per year, I'd say 90%+ have studded tires) - given the (I believe?) similar winter climate, I would have believed that even if it had not been mandated it would be common knowledge to use these tires in winter climate? How common is it to use winter rated tires in the northern parts of the US? Also, in order to get a drivers license here you need to complete a "winter driving course" (which you do in the summer using a contraption on the car that raises it somewhat, reducing the grip of the tires - it's a pretty good estimate on driving on an icy road) - is there a similar requirement to pass for a drivers license in the states where the road conditions are similar?

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#158

Post by InclinedPlane »

rdl wrote: post #113
andyl wrote: post #74

I teach search and rescue people how to travel on skis or snowshoes and live in winter mountains. If you are prepared, you can stay out in sub-zero for days and days very comfortably. A key skill is constant regulation of your body temperature. You never want to become too hot/sweaty or too cold. If too cold - get into shelter, drink something hot, eat carbs, add clothes, move faster. If too hot - remove clothes, or…

Also: STAY WITH THE VEHICLE. In general, if you're driving somewhere remote and something goes wrong, you're almost always better off staying with your vehicle vs. setting out on foot for help. There are obviously exceptions, but as a general thing, it's true.

I would probably be more likely than most to leave my vehicle but I have training in mountaineering and I wouldn't do so without a good plan and sufficient equipment. My car always holds a basic level of backup supplies including: a first aid kit, a bottle of water (which can also serve as a water container), a head-lamp with extra batteries, a multi-tool, matches, a fleece blanket, rain gear (including rain pants), mylar thermal blankets, and a simple drawstring backpack (which holds the blanket and rain gear) in blaze orange.

Even in a worst case scenario where I happened to drive up into the mountains in just jeans and a t-shirt and get caught in a snow storm and nobody knew where I had gone I could easily travel for several days through the back country (let alone alone the roads) with just that equipment. And if I stayed with my car it would definitely extend the amount of time I could survive until rescue arrived. The total cost of all of this stuff is almost nothing, it's worth it to be prepared.

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#159

Post by ivix »

30thElement wrote: post #156
AYBABTME wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do. I've personally never had a problem starting my engine, even in -40 (Celcius) nights in Canada. It sure takes a couple of seconds, but recent cars (>1990) all start just fine in extreme cold. Given your battery is charged, and your engine is in normal conditions.

Interesting tidbit: -40 Celsius is the exact same temperature as -40 Fahrenheit. Nitpick: If you have a diesel, your car will not start at all if the engine is cold, but if you have a diesel and live anywhere where there's a risk of it being cold enough for hypothermia, you already know this. Also if you have a crappy battery, in cold enough weather it won't put out enough juice to turn over the starting motor (that'…

The problem of course is that diesel fuel goes thick and viscous at very low temperatures.

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#160

Post by starpilot »

andyl wrote: post #74

I teach search and rescue people how to travel on skis or snowshoes and live in winter mountains. If you are prepared, you can stay out in sub-zero for days and days very comfortably. A key skill is constant regulation of your body temperature. You never want to become too hot/sweaty or too cold. If too cold - get into shelter, drink something hot, eat carbs, add clothes, move faster. If too hot - remove clothes, or…

An emergency blanket or bivy is extremely useful too and weighs very little. I just came back from spending a night in the snow (http://i.imgur.com/yc0cc.jpg sunset, Sequoia National Park, ~8,000 feet). At night, temps went down to the 20s (fahrenheit) I believe and I was shivering pretty bad in my sleeping bag until I took out my emergency blanket. In the morning, I cut it up and wrapped the pieces around my feet before putting on my boots, since I was still using soaking wet socks from the previous day (lost my extra pair somewhere on the trail). The mylar isn't breathable though so one has to watch out for perspiration.
Post reply on HN