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The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

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Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#31

Post by corin_ »

Locke1689 wrote: post #24
corin_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit, ignore the following: Worst was where they switched without even mentioning it. One paragraph they're still using F and said "The lowest recorded core temperature in a surviving adult is 60.8 degrees." , then the very next paragraph, with no talk of changing units, they talked about people dying "though temperatures never fell below freezing and ranged as high as 45". Just because the second story happened in E…

That's still 45 degrees Fahrenheit. They were talking about outside temperature, not core temperature. I'm also questioning if you have a sense of either temperature scale. It's quite funny to think that it could reach 45 C in England at all, much less that people would freeze to death in it.

My bad, of course you're right. And no, not a great sense of temperature scales - in the UK I pay attention when it's down around freezing (in Celsius) and in LA I pay attention when it's hot, 100+ in Fahrenheit. Other than those two occasions I guess I don't really notice or care.

Edit: funnily enough, 45C turns out to be the hottest temperature I've personally experienced, the day LA set it's record high in September 2010.

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#32

Post by astral303 »

freehunter wrote: post #8

Living in Michigan, this is one of my biggest fears. Due to the massive lakes that surround us, we frequently get a blast of warm, wet air that causes rain, and of course that warm wet air is being pushed off the lake by a cold front, causing high winds and sub-freezing temps. This combined with large stands of farmland and no trees for windrows means wind blows right across the road and freezes the rain instantly, s…

The conditions you describe are tough. Going off the road in an ice storm sucks. Love your CB and snow suit suggestions.

The following is not commentary on your situation, but tips to reduce chance of getting stuck:

1. I strongly recommend running a set of good snow tires, no matter whether you have an AWD Subaru or a 4x4 truck or a FWD Corolla. Yes, truck snow tires exist.

The reason is that the rubber compound is much much softer on these tires, and it stays soft when the temperatures drop. All-season tires are much harder in cold temperatures. The tread is also cut into much smaller blocks (known as siping), the edges of which help bite into the ice.

While ice is slippery no matter what, the difference in the grip level between a typical all season tire and a good snow tire is very significant. We are talking 3x the stopping distance. I've seen it on glare ice.

Now, if you really want to be protected, you must buy good studded snow tires. A set of Nokian Hakkapeliitta 7's will make ice seem almost like wet pavement. The amount of ice grip you have with those is unbelievable. The downside is the increased tire noise.

2. Practice controlling skids on ice or snow: practice countersteer, practice NOT hitting the brakes, practice using throttle.

If you can practice this to make it second nature, or at least not foreign, this can make the difference between you spinning and not.

Get out to a snowy parking lot, start turning, let off throttle, then yank the e-brake (and put it down right away). You should start experiencing a spin at this point. No matter what, train yourself to immediately countersteer, such that your front wheels are pointed to where you want the car to go and not where the car is facing.

Now, while countersteering every time, compare the following 3 situations after starting the spin:

A. Counterseteer & do nothing with brake or gas. Simply get your feet off the pedals.

B. Countersteer & hit the brakes.

C. Countersteer & apply gas.

You must actually experience each of these to believe it, but you will learn that it is "C", applying gas, which will get you back in line the soonest. You will notice that as soon as you give it gas, the spin will stop or slow down significantly. You will notice that if you hit the brakes, you spin much further than if you were to simply let go off all the controls.

This is counter-intuitive, but basically if you start spinning on ice on a straight road and you have a FWD/AWD car, applying some throttle will often stop your spin, whereas hitting the brakes almost guarantees a spin. It's worth practicing, if you can.

The reason has to do with weight transfer. Your car's traction at each end is determined by the amount of weight. When you accelerate, you decrease traction up front and you increase traction in the rear. Lifting off throttle increases front end traction and decreases rear end traction, a little. Hitting the brakes massively decreases rear end traction and massively increases front end bite.

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#33

Post by debacle »

ghaff wrote: post #30
debacle wrote: post #11

Being cold and being deathly cold are two different things. I've only gotten mild frostbite once, but I'd never want to have it again. The skin blackens and peels, and itches like nothing I've ever experienced before.

Frostbite and hypothermia are two different things and often happen under different conditions. As noted, you can get hypothermia in (relatively) mild temperatures if you're wet, tired, dehydrated, etc. Frostbite tends to be the result of colder temperatures often in conjunction with wind. But, yes, both are bad. I've also had fairly mild frostbite of the ear lobes (a pretty common place) and it's not fun. The thing…

I've been lucky enough to never experience real hypothermia first hand.

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#34

Post by recursive »

billyjobob wrote: post #20

How old is this article? It seems to use the old Fahrenheit temperature scale. I'm sure my grandfather would understand those temperatures but for myself I had to convert each one into modern units. Eventually I couldn't be bothered and stopped reading.

New Fahrenheit is the same as old Fahrenheit. In other words, it never changed.

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#36

Post by yock »

jbellis wrote: post #7
bane wrote: post #6

Just to tie this back to the tech industry and why relying on GPS only can be dangerous http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim

Did you read what you linked? "Because of Mr. Kim's background as a technology analyst, observers speculated that the family had used online mapping to find their route. However, Mrs. Kim told state police that they had used a paper road map, an account supported by the Oregon State Police, which reported that the Kims had used an official State of Oregon highway map."

It's still relevant to the posted article, though perhaps not exactly for the reasons stated.

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#37

Post by waterlesscloud »

freehunter wrote: post #14
danso wrote: post #12

This bit about how certain groups of people have somehow developed different responses to cold is fascinating: Were you a Norwegian fisherman or Inuit hunter, both of whom frequently work gloveless in the cold, your chilled hands would open their surface capillaries periodically to allow surges of warm blood to pass into them and maintain their flexibility. This phenomenon, known as the hunter's response, can elevate…

You can notice this effect in your life as well. I don't know where you live, but I know here in the north, 40F is "freezing" cold in November for many people. And when March rolls around, 40F is cause for breaking out the t-shirts. Your body will adapt to the cold to a certain degree. I think I saw it explained on a reddit "ask science" post some time ago, but I cannot remember the physiological details of these tem…

I wonder if it's physical or at least partially psychological.

I live in Los Angeles and my brother lives in Flagstaff. Every year at the holidays, I go spend a week with him and his family. In Flagstaff there can be entire days below freezing and the nights can easily reach single digits F. When I'm there and it's 25 F, I'm fine. Toodle along like normal. Come back to LA and it's 50 and I shiver. Same outfits even. It's the strangest thing.

Maybe altitude? FLG is 7000 ft and LAX is more or less sea level. I dunno.

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#39

Post by mobweb »

freehunter wrote: post #8

Living in Michigan, this is one of my biggest fears. Due to the massive lakes that surround us, we frequently get a blast of warm, wet air that causes rain, and of course that warm wet air is being pushed off the lake by a cold front, causing high winds and sub-freezing temps. This combined with large stands of farmland and no trees for windrows means wind blows right across the road and freezes the rain instantly, s…

> no cell service, or the cell service is only for Verizon phones

I remember reading somewhere that emergency calls can use any network.

Re: The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997)

#40

Post by sardonicbryan »

30thElement wrote: post #29
46Bit wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you die from fumes inside your car? Provided the air intakes and exhaust pipe were clear of snow, I was under the impression it wouldn't really build up.

Assuming the exhaust pipe is clear isn't the best assumption when you're in a ditch in the middle of a blizzard. Even if the pipe is clear, rust from the all the salt on the road or damage from going into the ditch could easily put a hole in your exhaust.

So what is the best play then? Wait in the car without the engine running?
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