Stop Generalizing About Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#261

Post by pbreit » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 2:25 AM UTC

loxs wrote: post #56

crazygringo wrote: post #34

This post feels awfully pedantic. While it may not be clear to non-Americans, when Americans talk about "Europe", they're generally talking about Western Europe, not Eastern, and are excluding the UK too. They almost certainly aren't including Russia. (Just like when Americans talk about Asia, they aren't usually thinking of India.) Of course, that's geographically inaccurate -- but it's what we usually mean. The Eur…

> The Europe that Americans refer to does mostly use the > Euro, have better-distributed wealth, plenty of consumers, > and ambivalent feelings toward entrepreneurs in most of > its parts. Well, no it doesn't. Italy and Greece are extremely different to Scandinavia. At least regarding to things like temperament and culture. They are much more like Bulgaria and Turkey, though they may not really be willing to admit th…

The OP specifically stated that the reference to "Europe" typically refers to Western Europe which invalidates your comment. The thing about generalizing is a) it's generally accurate and b) it can be helpful. It has to be pretty egregiously wrong to be harmful.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#262

Post by pbreit » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 2:27 AM UTC

klibertp wrote: post #254

cristianpascu wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Romania, so I can tell what we consider West: Austria, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, France, UK, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Spain, Portugal, Holland, Belgium. If one goes to one of these countries, one feels like going west. Otherwise, it's less and less. So when Americans speak about Europe, it's safe to assume that they might refer to these countries. Rock bands will always have a hard time to tell Bucharest…

Err.. that's curious, you mean that going almost exactly NORTH (Sweden, Finland) is considered going west? I'm not sure if I like this, even if only because it's so obviously, factually wrong :)

Geography is only part of it.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#263

Post by laut » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 2:30 AM UTC

artimaeis wrote: post #188

erebrus wrote: post #107

It's amazing how many from the USA insist that the inner diversity in the USA is comparable to the one in Europe. I've heard this many times, namely here in HN. It is not comparable. PERIOD. Even if the poster goes a bit to the extreme of bringing Russia in to the conversation, even inside the EU, there is still no comparison on how how diverse Europe is (e.g. Portugal to Norway, Greece to France, Spain to Germany) c…

Perhaps the diversity of the USA is not the extreme of Europe, but I would be quick to point out that the regional differences in the US are quite notable even to an outside observer. There are 5 major regions of the US: Northeast, Southeast, Midwest, Southwest, and West. Each of these regions has noted differences in: dialect, culture, food, general behavior, economy, and quality of life. Now regardless of US or Eur…

You can compare Europe to the US, but you are comparing a diverse geographical area to a nation state. Apples to Oranges. It's like comparing the US to Asia.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#264

Post by jacoblyles » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 2:38 AM UTC

Isn't it true that the Western European economies are high-tax, high-regulation economies with high degrees of risk-aversion (both public and private) compared to America? Where does that stereotype fail?

From what I know, it's hard to fire underperformers in most of Western Europe. Many traditional industries are protected (like French book stores). Taxes are high. Anti-market sentiment is strong. It's not a place where I would want to start a company to do what has never been done before.

I'd like to be wrong. I hear Europe is a nice place to live, otherwise. But it is called the "old world" for a reason.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#265

Post by charlescearl » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 3:26 AM UTC

What's a harder climb -- getting Americans to stop generalizing about Europe or Africa? Wait -- if they could get to the point of realizing that Africa is a continent and not a country, that in itself would be a giant leap forward.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#266

Post by shimms » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 3:33 AM UTC

blablabla123 wrote: post #204

lispm wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ambivalent feelings toward entrepreneurs Germany has over three millions SMEs (small and medium enterprises, called 'Mittelstand'). I can assure you that there are no ambivalent feelings against 'entrepreneurs'. Exactly the opposite. You find world-market leaders in small towns all across rural Germany. You can guess that people are extremely proud to work for these companies. 99% of all companies are in the Mittel…

>"Roughly 95% of all German firms are family-owned. Of these, approx. 85% are managed by their owner." Lol?! ;)

Eh?! ;)

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#267

Post by stargazer-3 » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 5:13 AM UTC

aeonsky wrote: post #235

sameerp1 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, there is very little American cultural diversity. Slight differences in lifestyle don't make for cultural diversity. At least not in comparison to the various countries of Europe.

I'm Russian and will argue that most of the eastern Europe has very similar culture. Just because you rotate your head to say yes and nod to say no, does not make it vastly culturally different. The culture curtain ends somewhere around Czech Republic. Yes, I am even willing to say Ukraine is about 99% culturally similar, and that should stand for something since many know how much Russians despise being associated w…

I am Ukrainian and I disagree with you strongly, mainly because of your out-of-blueish 99%. Traditional culture is very different. As for an urban one, while Eastern and Southern regions are similar in very aspects to Russia indeed, they are not what we mean by Ukrainian culture at all.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#268

Post by DannyBee » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 5:43 AM UTC

loxs wrote: post #77

hnriot wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Louisiana is very different to California too, but that doesn't mean you can't refer to America as a general entity. Bulgaria is a beautiful country, I visited it while living in Romania. Of course all the Eastern European countries like Bulgarian, Romania, Slovakia/Czech, Serbia etc are all different, but also very alike.

Well, we are going deep down the rabbit hole now :). Please excuse me if I say lots of stupid things. How far apart are Louisiana and California? How far apart are Romania and Bulgaria? Yet, the two USA states share the same language (at least on official level), the same currency and the same "american" culture. Neither of these is true for BG and RO. And we are neighbours, mind that. As an added "benefit", we have…

BTW, just to point out a common and incorrect generalization you made in this very comment:

"Yet, the two USA states share the same language (at least on official level)"

No, they don't.

At the federal level, there is no official language.

At the state level, English is an official language of California, however it is not an official language of Louisiana.

See the table at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-only_movement

I guess things may be more different than you think, eh?

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#269

Post by aufreak3 » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 6:17 AM UTC

I would love to write a similar post titled "Americans and Europeans, stop generalizing about India". As much as I cringe every time I hear someone do an "Indian accent" (it differs vastly from state to state), drawing simple boundaries is the way we make sense of the world around us. As experience grows, we learn to make finer distinctions and the texture of life around us grows from monochrome to technicolour.

Please feel free to draw these simple boundaries around anything of importance to you as long as those generalizations are adequate for your life and those around you. Don't however think that your generalizations are absolutely real. They're real for you and may not be for others. This is what is ultimately so beautiful about the world.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#270

Post by SheriffFatman » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 6:21 AM UTC

snogglethorpe wrote: post #236

SheriffFatman wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there's a difference in that "America" or "the Americas" can include a much larger area than just the USA, while that's not true for the countries you list. China is agreed by both the PRC and the RoC to include Taiwan -- they just disagree over who is the legitimate government; "Germany" historically meant all German-speaking lands, but that usage is now, for understandable reasons, defunct; the Commonwealth of…

> China is agreed by both the PRC and the RoC to include Taiwan -- they just disagree over who is the legitimate government This is the historical position of the Taiwanese government, but it's decreasingly true amongst the Taiwanese people, so to some degree it's already an anachronism. Many actual Taiwanese don't self-identify as "Chinese" at all (while obviously recognizing the common heritage). However, given the…

I would not disagree with you.

In fact, I was led to understand that this is not a recent phenomenon, and that even before the flight of the Nationalist government to Taiwan, many (most?) Taiwanese did not consider themselves Chinese, until the Nationalist exiles started promoting that idea heavily.