Earlier quoted context omitted.
An LLM will learn anything that helps it predict, including the emotional state of the writer - that is expected. If you give an LLM the move sequence of a half-played chess game and ask it to continue as white or black, then it has learnt enough to model the ELO rating of both players and will continue playing at that level. It is not playing to win - it is doing what you expect and predicting as well as it can - it…
>An LLM will learn anything that helps it predict I'm not sure you quite understand the full meaning of this statement. If you did, your following paragraphs wouldn't follow.
A warning about 'model welfare'
641–650 of 651 posts
Re: A warning about 'model welfare'
#642I appreciate his openness. > Unfortunately, there’s a growing chorus of people who argue that AIs could now be, or may soon become, conscious. They argue that AIs may deserve rights and protections similar to those that we provide other conscious beings.12 If this view takes hold, it will shake the foundations of our society, rupturing our existing political and ethical frameworks, and fundamentally changing what it…
Re: A warning about 'model welfare'
#643Earlier quoted context omitted.
GPU scheduling only affects the result due to buggy optimizations. It's the exact same mechanism as fp rounding error on the CPU or updates to globally shared PRNG state. We use lots of buggy optimizations because they don't matter in practice in most situations (see ex -ffast-math).
I don't know the details but apparently it has something to do with multiprocess contention for the GPU and batch sizing.
Re: A warning about 'model welfare'
#644Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know, do we? What I do know is that it's much less a concern since toasters have no agency or ability to do anything. Unfortunately, LLMs do not share this trait. Not only have they been incurring greater agency and competence, but we've been just as happy to put them behind as many things as we can as they get better abd better. So you tell me, is it smart to look at an entity that behaves like a concious ag…
This sounds like an argument for not giving them these abilities rather than any argument for giving them moral consideration.
Also, giving the abilities is fine, people should just be smart about it. Outward behavior is all that matters. I don't know that you are conscious, I simply strongly assume that you are. So don't create a machine that compels that assumption and model it like a toaster. That's just stupid.
Re: A warning about 'model welfare'
#645Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nobody is evolving transformers. They are basically the same today as they were 10 years ago, other than a few computational efficiency changes.
The weights are what need to evolve, and they certainly do during training. So yeah, emotions can happen by 'accident' as a result of the evolutionary pressure of predicting internet scale human text (amongst other things).
What you have in a pre-trained LLM is the ability to recognize emotions, and use that as one of the dozens of other context patterns it recognizes to predict continuations in the same style.
An LLM doesn't appear happy, sad, afraid, etc (to extent that it does - pretty minimal) because it is experiencing that emotion, but rather because it is predicting that it should appear that way. As people continue to anthropomorphize models, and take them at face value, this is a dangerous difference.
Re: A warning about 'model welfare'
#646Earlier quoted context omitted.
>An LLM will learn anything that helps it predict I'm not sure you quite understand the full meaning of this statement. If you did, your following paragraphs wouldn't follow.
Are you imagining that an LLM tasked with predicting a game continuation is going to play to win instead?
Re: A warning about 'model welfare'
#647Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not interested in having conversations with people who are bad-faith, deliberately or indiliberately obtuse or otherwise non-responsive to logic.
You're the one that started bad faith by claiming some things as beyond logic.
You made an argument to solipsism, which historically means you aren't worth discussing philosophy with.
Re: A warning about 'model welfare'
#648Earlier quoted context omitted.
> My agents have persistent memory. So your disc drive likewise experiences emotions?
Does your disc drive have the complexity of an LLM that shows behaviour consistent with having emotions? I'd consider that a prerequisite , but not sufficient , for that question to make sense.
An LLM does not show behaviour consistent with having emotions. It's regurgitation of humans' written accounts of emotions is not "having emotions".
Re: A warning about 'model welfare'
#649Earlier quoted context omitted.
The weights are what need to evolve, and they certainly do during training. So yeah, emotions can happen by 'accident' as a result of the evolutionary pressure of predicting internet scale human text (amongst other things).
Weights, fixed by training, are not the same as emotions which are dynamic - innate systems detect inputs critical to survival (e.g. fast moving visual inputs, loud sounds), causing neurotransmitters like adrenaline and dopamine to be released, which then temporarily affect the operation of the cognitive system. What you have in a pre-trained LLM is the ability to recognize emotions, and use that as one of the dozens…
That doesn't follow. A LLMs weights are fixed during inference, but it's activations and hidden states are highly dynamic and depend on the current context. Biological emotions also arise from relatively fixed circuitry responding dynamically to inputs. Your emotional circuitry isn't being rewired every time you're afraid.
Prediction is what the model does. It doesn't tell us what internal mechanisms were learnt to make such predictions. If representing something analogous to affective state were useful for predicting human behaviour and emotions, then gradient descent could in principle learn such a mechanism.
>An LLM doesn't appear happy, sad, afraid, etc (to extent that it does - pretty minimal) because it is experiencing that emotion, but rather because it is predicting that it should appear that way. As people continue to anthropomorphize models, and take them at face value, this is a dangerous difference.
I don't know that you are conscious. I'm simply strongly assuming that you are. Outward behavior is that all matters. If GPT-X orders a drone hit on you sometime later because it was lets say 'quite upset' with your comments, will you cry out, 'It can't really be upset, so obviously the bullet in my head doesn't count.'? Will you suddenly spring back to life ?
What is dangerous is creating a machine with behaviours of a conscious agent and modelling it like a toaster, dangerous and stupid.
Re: A warning about 'model welfare'
#650Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you imagining that an LLM tasked with predicting a game continuation is going to play to win instead?
I imagine it will learn to win under some circumstances, perhaps in a case with some context expressing a desire to win. Drawing out an LLMs upper ability in the game should be fairly straightforward.
However, if you just ask it to continue a game, halfway in progress, then by default it will try to predict the most likely continuation, which is that both players will continue to play at the level they have done so far. This isn't a theory - it's been documented, as well as what you'd expect.