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Hackers Got Inside a Flock Camera

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Re: Hackers Got Inside a Flock Camera

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember walking over a hill into a rave in the Utah desert that we'd set up and thinking that it actually was the cyberpunk dystopia that I had been hoping for. That kind of stuff is around but maybe not evenly distributed or legible to large demographics. Unfortunately, so is the rest of the vicious horrorshow, equally illegible and equally uneven in distribution.

Interesting that you frame it as "hoping" for a dystopia. Like even in our wildest imaginations we can't envision a future where society works for regular folks.

I'm sympathetic to the problem that folks like Mark Fisher have laid out, in which (to paraphrase) "it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism", and that indeed might be one way to understand my feeling.

I take your point; it makes sense.

"Regular folks" is doing a lot of work, though.

It may very well be the case that most of the material world which props up the idea of "regular folks" never was capital-R Real and insofar as the idea is a pleasant dream it is not a sustainable one.

Proximate to me, often "regular folks" entail white folks unproblematically living their lives around the norms of US hegemonic capital interests. When I hear Pat the Bunny sing "show me utopia, I will call it a jail" I understand the feeling. I was, afterall, raised by Christians who believed in David Byrne's picture of "Heaven" as a place where "nothing ever happens".

Those are the folks who have happily elected a few people to replace the Flock cameras here with Axon. Their vision of an ordered society is a bit chilling to me, despite the fact that they understand their project as both liberal and progressive.

As I understand it, deviations from those cultural norms are already "dystopic" to the "regular folks" I know- if we somehow lost our ability to transmute sand into computing power and dead plants into motive power and had to go back to living in the cliff side then we'd no longer really be human, despite the fact that their enchanted sand and holy oil is literally destroying the ecology of the entire planet.

This situation is, of course, already a distopia for the bands of Ute and Jicarilla Apache and Dine and Hopi and others living near me. And when I look at the kinds of technological survellience built into the material structures it feels easy enough to note that we already live in a dystopia. I have heard some specific dakota folks refer this situation to as post-apocalyptic and I am inclined to agree.

If we accept that we're already in a dystopia and, further, that much of the hegemonic culture's idea of a "utopia" has already been a holocaust for several other groups of people, then hoping for a "dystopia" in that sense might seem a bit more coherent.

Re: Hackers Got Inside a Flock Camera

#192
post #162
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My passwords are in an encrypted block in a text file that can be unencrypted inline in an Emacs session with a keystroke sequence that looks like a cat just chased a mouse across the keyboard, and that's before entering the decryption password. To access it, an attacker would first have to learn Emacs. Pretty sure that's a post-quantum level of security.

They could use an LLM to lookup your HN posts and then to wrangle Emacs. Or just decrypt the text in another application - I doubt Emacs is the only platform for whatever crypto method you use. M-x rot13 ?

Oh, did I forget to mention the encryption is implemented in Emacs Lisp?

At some point, the attackers are just going to have to give up and start hitting me with a wrench. Joke's on them though - I'm an Emacs user, I like pain.

Re: Hackers Got Inside a Flock Camera

#193
post #105

If you want to know what a "Vulnerability Disclosure Policy" (VDP) would look like if its main purpose is to claim we have VDP and create an appearance of responsible security posture, but not really to learn about vulnerabilities - read Flock's VDP. They sincerely welcome your vulnerability disclosures, except in cases where you have to "interact" with the device/service or download its data. Other than that TINY ca…

The TLS/SSL and DNS carveouts are pretty normal. There are a million security options for those services and enabling them all would often mean denying access to anyone running a browser/client more than a few weeks old. Documenting them all would be a PITA so most policies simply prohibit them entirely.

Testing against customers is also a common prohibition for obvious reasons.

Re: Hackers Got Inside a Flock Camera

#194
post #44

> "We liberated hardware" Ya know, I'm not on Flock's side here.. but be real, this is theft. You should be able to own that if you're going to do something like this.

You don't think maybe it's just a little bit tongue-in-cheek? Maybe a reference to how the US Military sometimes goes into foreign countries saying we'll be greeted as liberators?

Re: Hackers Got Inside a Flock Camera

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any breach of security on a system like this is a big flashing red-alert to me. If it could lead an attacker to get ANY of their data... Persons, places, events, etc is pretty damning stuff to be exfiltrated. Stalking/Domestic Violence, blackmail, timed robberies, you name it... That data shouldn't really be in anyone's hands in my opinion, but in anyone's hands (good guys / bad guys) it's pretty powerful.

Getting persistent access to Flock's internal network is a high-priority item for every US adversary, who doesn't want free intel collection on the movements of persons of interest? Knowing who the FBI and local cops are monitoring in is the counter-counter-intelligence cherry on top of a self-inflicted dragnet surveillance cake. Any entity with access to flock servers can virtually stake-out anyone/everyone driving…

.. with friends like these, who needs enemies

Re: Hackers Got Inside a Flock Camera

#196
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

K. And cops also have guns, tear gas, the right to pull people over, arrest them, etc. etc. If they cannot be trusted with a licence plate database, then they can't really be trusted with those either. Are you advocating to just abolish police so that whoever is willing to use the most force can be in charge of everything? Like Mexico, but with less policing! Or to just remove all their weapons and legal powers so th…

"And cops also have guns, tear gas, the right to pull people over, arrest them, etc. etc. If they cannot be trusted with a licence plate database, then they can't really be trusted with those either."

now you're getting it.

"cops are the only reason we don't all have delicious cartel boots (or their bullets) in our mouths already"

citation needed.

And since you're looking for some solutions to these problems, here are a few: end qualified immunity, make peace officers obtain licensure and insurance so when the shitheads fuck up they are personally liable for their corruption, dissole internal affairs and move the investigations to a third party. In terms of reducing crime: tax the ever loving fuck out of anyone worth more than a million, dump those taxes into public services like education and healthcare so people aren't forced into deviance (further reading: https://www.simplypsychology.org/mertons-strain-theory-devia...)

Re: Hackers Got Inside a Flock Camera

#197

Tyranny of government invites terrorism from its constituents. We have all heard the argument that when corporations intentionally make the legal option worse it drives otherwise law abiding customers to pirate the content instead because piracy provides a better service than paying the corporation for their kneecapped product. I dont see how the same thing doesnt apply to governments. The people tell you over and ov…

I disagree.

If your solution is revolution you misunderstood the problem, and you'll make it worse

We still have vestiges of democratic institutions we can use to constrain and controll the state.

The blood letting, pain and suffering you are calling for is much worse than the private power's attack on privacy, and destroys the one effective tool (what remains of your Republic) that you have to fight them

Instead of fighting to destroy your republic, struggle to protect and restore it

Re: Hackers Got Inside a Flock Camera

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That same NH law perhaps more importantly limits ALPR use to law enforcement officers.

[flagged]

I know several police officers and none of them fit this description. I'm sure there are officers that do; I have Youtube too. But this is a pretty gross way to refer to about 1,000,000 people doing an extraordinarily difficult job.

Re: Hackers Got Inside a Flock Camera

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2017 was also the year Flock was funded and founded and went through the YConbinator cohort. But you would have thought that by 2021 when Andreessen Horowitz funded them or at least by 2025 [1] when both further funded them, someone would have actually done some minor due diligence. Coincidentally too, 2025 was when the flock surveillance matrix went up all over the country almost immediately. We constantly hear that…

Interesting that they are a YC Company. Does yC do any ethics vetting of saying "No, let's stop fascism before it spreads?"

YC does no meaningful vetting at all. You can steal another YC entrant’s product and still get funded.

https://deepdelver.substack.com/p/delve-fake-compliance-as-a...

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