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Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

mistral.ai

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Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#171

Post by well_ackshually »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #165
tyre wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a small player and throwing away any hope of expanding your user base by building for people who will complain no matter what you do is, well, something!

neglecting existing customers in an attempt to gain larger market share is certainly a play

Ah yes, the customers of Mozilla, who are certainly paying users and not just people whining and saying BACK IN MY DAYS IN THE LAST MILLENIUM IT WAS DIFFERENT.

Get over it gramps, things are changing. Mozilla spent ten years trying to mostly appeal to these people by staying very conservative, and it got them nothing but abuse and harassment from people not realising that staying stuck in the past is a death sentence for Mozilla.

You want to save Mozilla, burn down Google first. The ecosystem in which they are evolving isn't driven by them.

Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#173

Post by walrus01 »

well_ackshually wrote: post #171
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

neglecting existing customers in an attempt to gain larger market share is certainly a play

Ah yes, the customers of Mozilla, who are certainly paying users and not just people whining and saying BACK IN MY DAYS IN THE LAST MILLENIUM IT WAS DIFFERENT. Get over it gramps, things are changing. Mozilla spent ten years trying to mostly appeal to these people by staying very conservative, and it got them nothing but abuse and harassment from people not realising that staying stuck in the past is a death sentence…

> You want to save Mozilla, burn down Google first.

Uhhh... 85% of mozilla's revenue comes from Google via the search deal. In a theoretical scenario where a genie waved a magic wand tomorrow and google went "poof", disappearing, mozilla would be in a dire emergency for lack of revenue.

Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#174

Post by well_ackshually »

walrus01 wrote: post #173
well_ackshually wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the customers of Mozilla, who are certainly paying users and not just people whining and saying BACK IN MY DAYS IN THE LAST MILLENIUM IT WAS DIFFERENT. Get over it gramps, things are changing. Mozilla spent ten years trying to mostly appeal to these people by staying very conservative, and it got them nothing but abuse and harassment from people not realising that staying stuck in the past is a death sentence…

> You want to save Mozilla, burn down Google first. Uhhh... 85% of mozilla's revenue comes from Google via the search deal. In a theoretical scenario where a genie waved a magic wand tomorrow and google went "poof", disappearing, mozilla would be in a dire emergency for lack of revenue.

It would. But Mozilla has zero long term survival chance in the current ecosystem. The economics are just not there, there cannot be more than one big browser in the way this system works.

Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#175

Post by preg_match »

nosioptar wrote: post #81
Good4boothee wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All previous similar issues got hand waved with "Mozilla has to make money somehow". I am afraid one day remaining users will decide that Chromium based browsers provide a better experience in most use cases, and now have same privacy guarantees as Firefox. Looking at market share maybe that had already happened and pragmatism won over ideology, and we will all suffer the consequences of such monoculture.

[flagged]

These comments are so annoying and they pop up on literally any news Mozilla releases. Like… ever.

No, Firefox is not malware because it includes an OPTIONAL feature. Yes, chrome is 100x worse than Firefox when it comes to data privacy. Yes, Firefox works in 99.9999% of websites. Yes, the performance of Firefox is about the same as chrome.

Nobody who seriously gives even a single fuck about privacy is going to be dropping Firefox because of this. Because that’s stupid.

The only conclusion, then, is that people who are dropping Firefox because of this don’t care about privacy at all, and just want an excuse to use chrome. But I guess saying “well I like chrome” is too much, so we just lie instead.

It’s fine to use chrome. It IS NOT fine to lie through your teeth and claim you use chrome because Firefox is just as bad for privacy.

Because it’s not, and not a single person would drop Firefox for that reason. You just want to use chrome. So do that, and stop shitting on Firefox as if Mozilla implementing 0.01% of the malware chrome has is the end of the world.

Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#176

Post by havaloc »

Firefox/Mozilla really lost the plot.

Remember when it was the fastest thing around and simple?

Now it's an also ran. AI doesn't help here. Focus on what made it great in the beginning, make it the most performant browser around. Put Fable on the case if need be. Do the browser thing well!

Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#178

Post by einpoklum »

walrus01 wrote: post #47
peri-cl wrote: post #5

This is an excellent use case for completely local, small model inference, yet for inexplicable reasons Mozilla wants to normalize uploading your entire private browsing history to a cloud. These (Mistral's and Mozilla's) marketing pages aren't candid enough to clearly explain the difference between local and cloud inference, and that they're asking you to consent to enabling the latter. I'd call that the bare minimu…

I am not trying to defend Mozilla doing this, and I don't support sending data to cloud based services like this in a way that users won't understand. But I also think that the state of the art in small LLM and user device capabilities aren't there yet to put a "good enough to be actually useful" local-only LLM as a prepackaged thing in a mass market distributed browser. You don't want a browser that takes 10GB of ex…

> I am not trying to defend Mozilla doing this

Well, you kind of are though.

> I wish they had just done this with a very clear up front opt in

If a local model is not realistic, then this should not have even been an in-your-face opt-in, but at most some add-on.

Of course, their telemetry isn't even opt-out, so even the opt-out for the Mistral thing is kind of disingenuous on their part, since they get a bunch of information from us in other ways.

(sigh) Ah, Mozilla has gone down such a dark path over the years. Too bad.

Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#179

Post by goobatrooba »

eis wrote: post #17

Mozilla lost the tech race and with it a lot of users. Firing a lot of their talented developers didn't help. Now Mozilla is giving up the only reason why they kept a core audience of privacy focused users by sending our browsing data to third party servers for inference just at the time when small local models are getting good enough for many/most use cases like summarization or translation. Chrome provides an API f…

I don't understand this negativity. It seems to be a fully optional separate service. No one is losing anything.

Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#180

Post by goobatrooba »

Madmallard wrote: post #14

"Private" Guess we just using buzzwords for marketing and have no morality or principles anymore. Bad timeline and people you should just not trust.

Why would it not be private? Yes data is sent to the servers but the trust that you must have that they don't keep the data is not different from the trust you must have in your password manager or encrypted email or backup storage provider.
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